Ok, I'm back from the Lab and here is what I've got. I documented nearly everything I did with the exception of a couple of farts and a nose picking session.
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Open FL with custom default template using iDrum instead of the default samples.
Load DUNE (default Alpha Glider patch)>strike the 'v' key = No sound
Click GUI and repeat = No sound
Use mouse to hit F2 (as in midi note) = Sound
Check the FL Settings. Typing Keyboard to Piano enabled.
Press several keys in the same row as 'v' (z,x,b,m etc) = No sound
Turn off typing keyboard to piano and turn it back on = No sound
Load random instrument from my list by waving cursor over the area, looking away and clicking.
Buzz Generator Adapter loaded.
Press 'x' = No sound but this is due to nothing being loaded in this plugin though the step editor indicates information transfer.
Decided to document this step by step, typed it up
Loaded 'Radium' (freeware made with SynthEdit) pressed keys v,e,r,t,y,t = Sound however the second pressing of t hung including the info meter in the step editor.
Pressed stop 2x to reset, checked for sound pressing 't' = no sound
Reset the keyboard option still no sound.
Opened fruity native WASP and played several and multiple note chords with no problem. I even used the mouse the select Radium in the middle of playing = Sound stops when radium is selected then when moving back to WASP = Sound returns.
Type that and returned to FL changed focus from WASP to Radium and keyboard works again this time no hanging even after a similar note treatment applied to WASP
Typed that went back tested radium again = no sound. Selected the radium GUI specifically still no sound.
Typed that returned and tested Radium again = No sound selected DUNE with mouse hit v,e,v,r = sound and the hangs on 'r' selected the step editor and sound stops. selected Radium = sound no hangs.
Return from typing select Radium sound for 3 notes and hangs (though the sound fades to the amp envelope settings and stops but step editor indicates info transfer - sounds like a midi handling issue with the pc keyboard at this point because the external controller can be played as fast and I can physically manage perfectly) selected WASP pressed b,e,r slowly = sound. pressing a little faster = sound. speed up and eventually it hangs.
Returned from typing tested several combinations of input via both pc keyboard and midi keyboard across DUNE and WASP, selecting between them as I played. Midi controller handles much better but eventually hung on WASP. Then a final Radium test with the pc keyboard where notes are still playable after the hang again indicating a host midi handling issue, but this could also be a manifestation of certain SynthEdit issues. I will load a different test plugin to eliminate this possibility.
Loaded AM KarBass (SynthMaker), several tests across both inputs at various speeds. No hang ups...looks like KarBass is GOD! lol
Stepped away to join the neighbors by their fire for a little bit returned and selected radium and notes from pc keyboard we played at a moderate pace with no problem even 3 or 4 chords.
Returned from typing, selected DUNE using the mouse on the step editor and notes played fine via pc keyboard until Mouse was moved however this could be coincidence due to similarities in the time frame between notes played and sound stopping also this instance was simple sound stop and not a hung note.
Disabled all external midi and focused on pc keyboard and DUNE was handled much better this way though the information seemed to drop out every 4 to 5 notes but none would hang up. Information did completely stop at several points but was easily restored by selecting DUNE via step editor or pressing the keys in the 'Channel Settings' window. In fact via channel settings window the regular note drops were noticeably less.
*also just learned that if the notes hang they can be freed by using the 'channel settings' window as opposed to stop 2x though you should try selecting via step editor if that doesn't work.*
*noted that when DUNE is focused and I use the mouse to select the 'Channels>Add One' menu I was presented with a glitch like behavior of black and white bars jumping up and down the menu like a shoddy antenna tv signal. switching to KarBass presented the same thing but after selecting the KarBass 'channel settings' window then back to the Channels menu the bars were gone but returned when selecting DUNE - at this point I would wonder if your laptop was internet connected ro a dedicated DAW machine. Further testing between all loaded plugins indicated this issue is only with DUNE*
Loaded U-He Tyrell Nexus 6 experienced one note hang but was easily fixed by selecting the hung note in the channel settings window. Also noted that when Channel Settings window is the focus the plugin didn't experience any note problems with the pc keyboard.
Went back to Tyrell and played several notes across several patches including one very CPU heavy patch (88% average while playing single notes) and experienced no problem. Selected DUNE via step editor and sound stopped even after selecting the channel settings window and didn't return until selecting the DUNE GUI and then every note played hung until selecting them in the channel settings window to turn them off.
Loaded reFX Claw and notes play fine however the 'r' key pages through the presets instead of playing the note. I have noticed this a few weeks ago with another plugin but do not recall its name.
Loaded the SynthEdit NOVAkILL plugin COLDkILLERmini and this played flawlessly until selecting the GUI of Radium and then the notes were sent there and thus sound came from Radium.
Loaded Psychic Modulation 'Metatron' this plugin was chosen because I'd recently had a problem with it not playing it's sequencer delivering only a dry note no matter what I did including reloading it. This plugin performed normally with no problems?!
Loaded U-He ZebraCM and while not as sever it too seems more prone to the note hanging issue.
After loading SimSynth and testing it with no problem I'm cutting this off here because I think I've figured this out.
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My suggestion is to make sure the midi settings in the options tab are all turned off and things should work a bit more regularly for you though I will agree with you that DUNE seems more prone to the issue it is not isolated to DUNE alone however, this glitchy menu situation is isolated to DUNE when tested against the 9 plugins mentioned here.
Anyway, I would try the settings I've suggested...and make sure your computer isn't doing anything else (like connected to the internet or picture editing or ebook reading or whatever else you might be double tasking) to make sure the problems are with these programs. For CPU reasons I personally like to shut down all non-essential tasks running in the background as well.
Also, is your operating system one you purchased and have the disc for or is it OEM or a pre-installed setup? I have noticed that many programs of this nature run much smoother on systems where the OS's legitimacy is easily proven, such as from a disc you just got from Wal-mart or the initial factory install; in fact almost two identical set ups exhibit EXTREME differences in ability when one of the OS's was installed via the OEM restore disc included with a computer purchase as opposed to the same system and its original factory installation as well as when compared to a nearly identical computer also still factory installed or restored via a restore partition.
Anyway, my basic overall opinion is that FL Studio has a MIDI handling issue when using the PC keyboard possibly due to the fact that these buttons serve other functions outside of this in various areas of the software and will probably always be this way and it's just a little weird that, while not the only plugin to exhibit these issues, DUNE is definitely more prone to them.
Now who do I taddle to about this glitchy menu situation... never mind I don't actually have a workflow that makes this a problem or I'd have noticed it a while ago. lol
Annoying BUG, pc keyboard fl studio 10Moderators: Christophe, Mark
55 posts
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Re: Annoying BUG, pc keyboard fl studio 10WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAH
mate i hope you didnt spend tooooooo much time on this , many thanks for this intense testing, i feel somehow bad now...... i didnt understand everything you described but overall and i can tell you as far as i remember all plugins with clicking on the gui and playing on pc keyboard, only DUNE not so far. omnisphere, native instruments plugins, gladiator, firebird, zeta etc. sure i will get a usb midi keyboard soon but i like and learned to handle the stuff on pc keyboard very well, and playing on notebook is also something NOT to be forgotten to fast do some little music etc. i think Synapse is really lazy to check this issue or they dont show it which i dunno but so far i wont buy a synapsye software VST because of lack of support, maybe they dont care.....
Re: Annoying BUG, pc keyboard fl studio 10
The time and work was no problem, it was just me helping someone to make a decent decision and solve a problem for them. All things I enjoy. I'm sorry you don't understand it all that's why I wrote it the way I did, so when I said 'Loaded this plugin tested it blah blah blah' you too could sit at your computer and recreate everything I did by following it like an instructions list. About not having a controller, I understand completely that its a simple self-contained way of working but due to the fact that each component has its specific purpose and by assigning the letter keys to midi notes you are creating a folded use of the qwerty keyboard and this is going to cause problems. The qwerty keyboard was never meant for this purpose I don't think. This implementation is a convenience option possibly requested by early sound designers or patch makers to make their job in this industry a little easier, not for composition by preforming... If that's what you're looking for then I'll say it now and piss-off everyone of these four pages worth of replies - go to KVR sell your plugins and go buy Reason. This is the only workstation I know of that has implemented the qwerty keyboard in a way that will allow you to do what you are trying to do, but be warned - It only works for Reason because of the way the rest of the program operates... and contrary to your notion that using a controller is going to limit or inhibit you somehow, I have to state that it will only make things easier and much better on many levels to use a controller. Look at it this way, Reason is the only place you'll get this option to work like you want it to, but for you to have it work that way you'll be thrust into a work place that exponentially replaces this one inconvenience with MANY MANY more. Get a controller and solve the problem with the current set up you have, but you should also know that even having a controller in Reason makes things simpler and easier. So universally a controller simplifies the situation, but not having one is only simple in a single complected place. However, after seeing your logic on using a controller it only prepares me for the 'lack of support' claim about synapse and I can see easily where a person who believes like you do about the qwerty vs. midi controller issue would feel like they haven't received any help or support over the past 4 pages of us trying to solve your problem with very little input from you. It's easy to understand how Marcin being the second person to reply to you, and in less than 24 hours I'd like to add (I've got A SUPPORT TICKET not a thread in a forum but A FUCKING TICKET with Image-line and one of their plugins that is nearly 6 months unanswered!), giving you in very simple terms the same thing I just spent all night doing/documenting/(and in spite of my newbness and the fact that I'm not a developer or even a beta tester for that matter) confirming for you that this is an issue with FL and it's internal focus on the plugins. Sure I've added that DUNE seems to be more susceptible this lack of focus than other plugins but it EVEN HAPPENS WITH FL'S OWN FRUITY NATIVE plugins, not just DUNE! Even though Richard was the 21st reply he still answered you at a 'reasonably' unreasonable time of New Years Day! Sure you're thread was from Dec 22nd, but the facts are that around the 22nd of Dec, most people are taking time off work and spending it with their families - and you wanna know why Richard replied on New Years Day, I've got a real good guess why he would 'Work' on a holiday... because he cares about you, your music, and your enjoyment his products! No one around here is Lazy. You see there in plain text everything I did for you, and it amounts to what Marcin said in the third post of this thread. How do you know Marcin didn't do the same things I just did, and when Richard replied he was able to offer a suggestion as well as expounding on Marcin's statement, and if you don't know what he was saying or why, he was telling you that FL Studio is a closed environment workstation that, unlike Reason, allows the use of Cubase VST technology in which DUNE is compiled. Then I come along to inform you that it's not just VST's that have the problem, the Fruity plugs even hang notes and essentially back up both Marcin and Richard on their statements (and lets not forget gol's two cents here which ALSO SAID THE SAME THING only managing to not cast his product in a negative light). So you have Three Dev's two from the plug company and one from the host's company, in synapse's case their entire staff; and an independent user like yourself who has nothing to gain by helping you at all - all 4 of us are telling you the EXACT SAME THING! Now lets not forget the rest of this community that's pitched in and helped too, I just wanted to narrow it down to the simplest thing for you. So, we now see that the question was answered less than 24hrs after you asked it... I'm going to ask you a very large favor and I don't want you to take this as an insult because I don't mean it that way - but I need you to explain to me very simply why you feel synapse support 'doesn't care and must be lazy' when it is absolute fact that your question was addressed and answered the next day? I'm having a serious issue wrapping my mind around this and I may not sleep tonight. I have to know the logic behind this. So please, in return for all I've done for you tonight, tell me how Richard and Marcin (and even gol cause technically he joined in) are uncaring and lazy. I don't care if you buy DUNE or not, this isn't a sales pitch, I have to know how you can logically come to that conclusion. My heart is breaking because I feel like I must be missing some cognitive function that allows for this and I want my mind to be at it's sharpest at all times. You see, I at one time, wanted to purchase Sakura but I was having serious issues with it. Search my posts and you'll find a monster here at this forum about it. I posted it at IL and got NOTHING, I even sent Maxx Claster a personal email about the problem that's yet to be answered. I provided this man with all possible points of information stopping short of a video of the crashes taking place... still nothing. Yet, I don't feel like Maxx or IL's support is lazy or doesn't care, in fact I moved on and purchased a different plugin from them and eventually I got an FL10 license (the story behind this proves that this industry actually cares about it's customers). Hell, a personal friend of mine is an FL user who's had his questions answered nearly instantly in all cases! So, yeah for me to assume they don't care and are lazy would be to assume that the issue is a personal one and they just don't like me. You see now, why I have to know why you can think this way. I was in your position once, but didn't come away with this attitude... ...and just so you know, I have support questions both here and at IL forums that have gone unanswered, even seemingly ignored, but I also have ones that were taken care of within moments. It's all a matter of luck and that's it and specs. My friend who has his questions answered so quickly uses a prepackaged dell upgraded only with dell recommended components, my machine is a custom built computer with an obscure motherboard... perhaps this is the reason his issues are easier to handle. They are more common because it's more likely that more people will have those problem and my weird crashing and issue that NO ONE can answer is because of my motherboard. I don't recall any specs about your computer other than the OS you were running so again, since it's about the specs on the majority end I can't see how you can legitimately feel this way, especially after the majority of your post only mention the problem and your experiences with OTHER plugins and their support and how synapse's support is substandard. Please Caine I need to know how you are Able to think like this. It's the least you could do after all I did for you... You can even PM me if you like, but I have to know...
Re: Annoying BUG, pc keyboard fl studio 10thanks for writing so much..... well sure it's an individual point, for me all plugins work so far also fl studios' plugins. some people and i tried some new stuff out since Richard answered you know. thats the point, and why not just say "bad luck", we dunno, or whatever.
i had some probs with Omnisphere and you know what? this service from spectrasonics is marvelous, they answered also the noobish questions i had and always were helpful. of course a real midi keyboard is the way to go, but just cause most are ok then just move on? i dont like this behaviour, and if i would be a dev i would ask myself why something isnt working to learn also for the future. selling fl studio and plugins, mate this is so stupid sorry, i know that a pc keyboard isnt the best for music but it is possible and trying out patches etc. is more than enough. dont be so narrowminded. i guess some can even play better melodies on a pc keyboard than some on their usb midi keyboards lol. call me naiv or pissed or whatever, i got the plugin on the BEAT magazine so no cash prob it's just the absence and direct and devsupport. doesnt matter for me anymore though cause i got other plugins which are truly great and work, im a customer who wont affect the sales, doesnt matter 1 more or less for them so i am glad they dont get my money for this . sure IL arent getting all probs sorted out but they are creative, still helpful, care much more than others, the prices are great etc. no comparison needed at all!
Re: Annoying BUG, pc keyboard fl studio 10For the record, DUNE can receive text input, to add comments to presets, which is a very nice and useful feature considering the architecture of presets (for example this way we can instruct the users how to get something nice surprise, which was programmed into the preset by the sound designer; which otherwise would remain hidden). So maybe this is why other plugins don't have your described issue in FL.
Re: Annoying BUG, pc keyboard fl studio 10@Lance - My wife and I were discussing the problem and we came to a similar conclusion. Also we noticed by watching Process Explorer that when having only DUNE open and FL is minimized or not in focus it will have some CPU 'spasms' were it jumps from about 3% up to about 30%. It also does this while playing on occasion - but FL claims to only be around 5% to 7%
Curious which program it was spiking, I bridged DUNE and noticed that DUNE stays calm while it's the host that's stressing out causing the CPU jumps. It didn't happen with a couple of other plugins but I can't say if it would or not cause I lost interest in the concept. All in all, we were thinking something along the same lines but more relating to the preset menu but the comments window makes MUCH more sense! @Caine - You failed to answer my question. I'll use simple words. 'By my work testing it's obvious the problem is central with the host and how it handles DUNE inside of it's environment, there were several things indicating this. Marcin, Richard, and GOL all responded with answers that suggested the same. The first of these came just shy of 24 hours after you asked your question. This answer is the ONLY answer and it's pretty much out of Synapse's hands. So again, I ask you, how can you say they are lazy and don't care? When it's a simple, easily understood without much brain power concept that Synapse cannot fix an IL problem. <---Please pay attention and address ONLY the bold and underlined sentences PLEASE! Like I said, I need to know this answer. My whole world and mental well being depends upon this and I fear my marriage could suffer if you don't tell me how you can posses a fully functional mind and still come to that logical conclusion? Like I said, no insult intended, I'm just really confused because I know I have a fully function (perhaps well above average) mind and I would literally fold in on myself and disappear from existence if my mind worked this way for me. So I have to know, how do you reach that conclusion when all the evidence is glaringly to the contrary - it's like its your job or something. All other signs should point to a VASTLY different conclusion, yet something is motivating you to this one... what could that be? What could possibly be to gain by your blatant ignorance of the DRY KILL LOGIC at play here? Lets get real here for moment - I'm sure there would be some problems if Richard just strolled up into the IL offices sat down at terminal and started coding a fix just for you, so what the hell else is he expected to do but move on to do his job? Also, the other companies you've mentioned and compared their support to Synapse's are all VERY large companies with many more than 2 (two - that more than one [1] but less than three [3] this means its a VERY small number) employee's. And as far as the rest of your statements in response to my post... What post did you read and respond to? It seemed to be similar to the one I made but you managed to avoid every single point and question directed to you as if it was a talent or skill finely tuned and crafted into a career... Then, you call me narrow minded because I'm telling you that obtaining a controller would be a better solution than searching for a fix to a problem that isn't even the responsibility of the person you are requesting this service from. All I need from you is the answer to the above bold and underlined statement, and at this point I'm starting to feel a little entitled to that answer... *for the record* I use both Orion and FL Studio. I use both IL and Synapse plugin's. I completely respect the work of both developers in their own right and want to make very clear that my statements, questions or presence here are not to be misconstrued as any form of 'side taking', allegiance to, or ill will of any kind to either company. Last edited by DivinEviL616 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Annoying BUG, pc keyboard fl studio 10what do you mean? I didn't post anything here...
Re: Annoying BUG, pc keyboard fl studio 10I feel shilled! We'll meet again, Sir!
Just remember you owe me that explanation and I will collect!
Re: Annoying BUG, pc keyboard fl studio 10This is related to the mouse wheel focus. It can be fixed, at the expense of losing instant mouse wheel support when navigating the mouse over the Dune UI, i.e. you need to click somewhere before the mouse wheel works. Some plugins do it this way, or they don't support mouse wheel at all. Neither way is perfect.
Note that the input focus behavior is host- as well as OS-dependent. Keyboard+mouse wheel focus work fine on all Mac hosts, on the PC in Cubase, Ableton Live and Orion since v8.x, probably some others too. Anyhow, we'll ask the FLStudio developers if there's a way to make MW work without compromises (but I doubt it's possible). Admin - Synapse Audio Software
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Re: Annoying BUG, pc keyboard fl studio 10
WOW! This explains so much! Even questions that have come up since the original discussion. Thank you Richard, for fixing my world view. You were Able where Caine was not. See! Synapse Cares!
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