LOL, 3DS is exactly what I was thinking about earlier.
@Lance, how does SONAR handle templates? And no, I don't think those 2 (actually 3) convoluted trainwrecks of threads inspire anyone really
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My post is purely my own thought of how its easy to implement it in orion. -Problems before the programming.- - Because a template has to be loaded on a project and this project maybe uses other settings on busses its acceptable to ignore the buss settings on track templates. We can split the procedure to 2 parts as we have 2 mixers. Think of something like Track templates - Buss templates. - Orion V?? will include automation clips, automation clips are gonna be a generator which gonna send midi events to different linked parameters of a vst-mixers eq-track, inserts effects or whatever we already can automate so its wise atm to leave it outside for future compatibility. -Basic Principles of orion.- -Mixer oriented which leads to the fact that there is already a call function whenever an item is created(audio track, vst etc). -Orion already saves vst's state, mixers, internal or externals effects, etc which leads to the fact that the save procedure is already in. Styles, for vst are already in which leads to the fact that the code is there(one problem is that a style can save the midi events for only 1 pattern). Save eq settings are already in, which lead to the fact that the code is there. Styles, saves what vst used and on what setting which leads to the fact that the code is there. On a song save, orion remember what effects used as insert and with what setting so its there also. -Track templates- are related to the basic orion mixer (not the buss mixer). Saving a track templates is a save procudure that: saves the current state of a channel (or more channels) on the mixer as it is, i mean it saves the mixers inserts(vst used and on what settings), eq settings, vst-internal generator used on what settings and midi data of the channel. Its not saving the effect send value, also its not saving any automation related to this mixer channel. A track template can save more than one mixer channels. So its something like saving a song without automations, buss settings (and values of mixers send effects), and no any element on playlist editor. To create a track template must be something like we do now when saving a song, we preprogram a template for future use. What about saving a template from already projects? no problem at all load the song you want to create as template, remove the unwanted stuff and save it as track template. -Loading a track template. Its similar to the load song procedure with the diference that any time we load a track template orion creates new mixer channels to the existing project we work and dont replace anything. So basically it creates new mixer's channel's ->> load the generators used (vsti or internal) -> load eq settings -> load midi data -> loads insert effects -. load insert effects settings. -Buss templates- Saves the state of buss mixer : it save the effects used as inserts and on what settings,eq-volume settings blah blah you get the point. It dont save automation. Loading a buss template on a current project that already have assigned stuff on buss mixer? A pop up screen apear with a yes and a no, if we press no nothing happens, if we press yes it delete all the current eq settings, vst-internal effects used as insert and loads the settings we have saved on the buss template. -Management on the workflow and how to call them. Atm orion menus is: File - view - insert - options - window - ? We need it to gonna be File - view - insert - Options - Templates - window - ? Submenu of templates are Templates - Save - Save track template - Save Buss template - Save automation template (future use for that ) - Load - Load track template - Load Buss template - Load Automation template ( ) So my thought about the templates is something like that. It can improve ALOT the time we work when trying new stuff or when we want to try out ideas inside our songs. Atm i dont find any con's. Sorry for my english i believe that you all get the point. Now please all contribute to the discussion if its viable or not. Edits: Typos- grammar etc. Last edited by Vicious_Angel on Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ObservationDoh, Bones, I didn't see your post before I went all off and made another.
Last edited by epilogue on Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Orion V? Thought we're waiting for Orion 8 :confused:
You forgot the Options menu there ----------------- On the side note, and I don't mean to flame Vicious_Angel's post, in fact I commend him on the technical details, but here's my pros and cons... Templates: - Importing individual mixer channels (instruments + settings, effects + settings, EQ, gain, pan, bus assignments) - Storing files for each mixer channel Song Merge: - Importing multiple mixer channels in one take (instruments + settings, effects + settings, EQ, gain, pan, bus assignments) - No additional files storing (all neccessary data is already included in another .sfs file that you wish to import from, and you have a choice which parts you wish to import and disregard the rest) That's all I see there is to it. Well, maybe not pros and cons, just the way I see it could work, so my +1 vote goes to Song Merge SoundCloud ::: Facebook
ObservationFrom my view i writen down what i believe is really easier to program (programing wise).
I also find song merge as a good option but it needs a hell more code to implement it. Corected the options thingy:P Cmon no one else? Hypna this not flame at all :p we do a conversation. Last edited by Vicious_Angel on Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Emu1212m | Alesis micron | Edirol pcr500 | FOCAL CMS 50 | Senheiser hd 25-1 II | Core i7 etc
Observation
Sonar 8 Track Templates "You can create an unlimited number of track templates for quickly recalling your most often used track settings including the following: Track type (MIDI or Audio) Mute, Solo and Record state Hardware input Output destination Bus send settings Track parameters Track icons Effects and their settings Instrument and Bank/Patch Track name To Create a Track Template Select the track or tracks you want to save as a preset. Select File-Export-Track Template from the main menu. The Save As dialog appears. Enter a name for the template and click Save. Track templates use the file extension .cwx. To Insert a Track or Tracks from a Template Select Insert-Insert From Track Template-[track template name] or select More Track Templates if you don't see the one you want on the menu. Or Right-click in the Tracks pane and select Insert From Track Template-[track template name] or select More Track Templates. This inserts tracks that are exactly like the template. If you don't want to use all of the track characteristics that are in the template, you can filter the characteristics that you don't want by selecting Import Filter from the popup menu. This opens the Track Template Import Options dialog, which allows you to specify what track characteristics you want to import. Note: if the template you insert contains buses, using the Edit-Undo command after you insert the template will remove the new tracks, but not the new buses. If you don't want to insert buses, deselect buses in the Track Template Import Options dialog before you insert a template. You can delete a bus by right-clicking just left of the bus name, and selecting Delete Bus from the popup menu."
ObservationRichard-Jouni how you find the idea?
Emu1212m | Alesis micron | Edirol pcr500 | FOCAL CMS 50 | Senheiser hd 25-1 II | Core i7 etc
Observation
Song merge is coming like I said previously, in what form, depends on implementation details but a FULL merge will be possible in any case, ie merging everything. If something isn't desired, it can always be deleted. The work required is hardly more than deselecting stuff in a dialog anyways. Master templates are a separate idea, I like it It needs a different implementation unfortunately so it's massive extra work. Unless there's a huge demand for it for some reason, it won't happen, or at least not that soon. It also can be done to some extent with the FX Holder presets already, if the goal is to just have a couple standard effects bundled in one of the master channels. Admin - Synapse Audio Software
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ObservationTrack Template is not a new idea, several hosts have it.
Hypna has explained my opinion. I'm not interested to going back to create templates of my dozens of sfs files just for the possibility to import something from them, I wanna import sfs into sfs, even whole sfs, and later to decide which parts of the imported sfs(es) become fishbones for the new merged project. I'm not interested in Templates at all, those can be done when you create simpler sfs files with less tracks. Last edited by Lance on Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ObservationOne thing should be considered: raising the number of sends. Send fx are a vital parts of our sfs projects, and importing sends settings of sfs till there's room for them would improve the usefulness of song merge, that way the sfs import can be 100%.
I'd be happy with a doubled amount of sends, and even with a tabbed UI, so the mixer and master view would look like now, they only have little switch buttons, to see the sends #5-8. The big hosts have limitless sends and inserts, and their mixer/master UI done cleverly to allow this possibility. Last edited by Lance on Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ObservationWell fine by me.
I have a HUGE wip folder that i am gonna find some use for it :005: Emu1212m | Alesis micron | Edirol pcr500 | FOCAL CMS 50 | Senheiser hd 25-1 II | Core i7 etc
Observation
Hm 'clever' is a matter of taste. I just tried it in C4 and it took me an eternity and a lot of help from the manual to figure it out. And next time I want to do that, I'll need the manual again I'm sure since I've already forgotten how it works :superlol: If I need half an hour just to set up send FX, any inspiration that might have been there is fucking gone. In Orion it takes less than 10-20 seconds to add and use send effects. I'm against flexibility when it totally kills the workflow. That's not to say though that limitless sends can't be implemented properly. Admin - Synapse Audio Software
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ObservationI had me a wet dream last night thinking about those 'snapshots'....
Big Beat Mama, House Arrest. Kinky And Crispy, all just primed and waiting for my magic fingers.... Mmmmmm. :hihi: Don't leave me lickin' that window Rich!
ObservationOK, then maybe C4 isn't amongst them. :p Anyway looking at the new C5, it's a total Sonar 8 rip-off, and I'm not a S8 fanboi, I only have S3, which I've bought from a clearance sale for 20 bucks or so, but I could upgrade to S8 for a good price, especially if Orion is going to shipwreck or isn't going to that direction what I'd prefer. :p
But what you've experienced with C4, it's when a noobie meets a damn complex modern software. They need a learning curve, but after that they can be very fast to use. They are complex, but their complexity provide flexibility and configurability to the user. They allow plenty different workflows. I'm familiar with Sonar through trial versions, but I can setup in it inserts and send busses in no time without reading the manual. Regarding track templates in S8, it loads everything, insert fx, send fx, except the midi data of the instrument track. So Orion can be far superior to it because its generators/ imported instrument tracks have a pattern bank, so even if a bigass host would import midi data too with a template, Orion would beat it with a 64 times bigger midi bank. Last edited by Lance on Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ObservationThe way Rich explained it in the Song Merge thread about templates, it's defiantely what I'm after now too. Easy access and good to go! I doubt I'd ever use it to 'merge songs' per say. But just to have 'Live Rock' or 'Studio Slick' and the DR's drenched in reverb and comp'd with a big Kiss beat on it, and all I have to do is yell in the mic "Hello Cleveland!!!" That could fire up some great creativity I'm sure.
Glad we had this chat.
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