Observation

[epilogue]

There seems to be a lot of butting of heads over ideas lately. Here's why I think that is - maybe it'll help someone else?

There are two schools of thought I can see here - musicians who have ideas already (experimenters), and musicians who need a lot of prodding to get inspired (the 'mainstream' crowd).
Orion is far more for the former. The reason a lot of us die hard fans of it are so vehemently opposed to bloating OP with shit like wave editors and (insert FruityLoops/Reason/Reaper/Ableton feature here)s is that said programs already have those and they either A) are incongruous with the concept of Orion or B) are a lazy route to getting a specific result.

To put it another way, a lot of us like to draw our own pictures. The rest use clipart.

If you submit an idea that gets steamrolled, it isn't to say said steamrollers aren't open to ideas - it just means the suggested function probably doesn't jive with what Orion is. Orion is there to help you lay down your own ideas - not to taze you into creativity and do your work for you with gigs upon gigs of presets and prefab loops that only a few will use.

*hops off soapbox*

/.e

[Lance]

My observation is Orion has reached its maximal potential and perfection, so its development should be ended now!

[Dungeon Studio]

I think a lot of people still don't get the intricacies of OP for one. Two, I think a lot that see NI, or Steinberg with new synths and stuff coming out feel entitled that it should be in Orion as well - The OP7 or the OP53. Three; OP does have some short comings and tough work arounds, which is irksome - sure. But we didn't spend $50,000 a piece for it, and Rich doesn't have a corner office on the 38th floor with 175 employees to look after. (At least I don't think he does...?)

So it's just a matter of 'dirty underwear' being thrown to the wall here - something might eventually stick. And if we're all into music - we better ALL be into rejection then. Anyone with hurt feelings over being steamrolled better stay the hell away from major labels and production companies for the rest of their lives. :rolleyes:

[Kriminal]

with the way things are going now, its unlikely i will even install any updates...nothing new is happening that interests me, and im happy with how things are

i might do for testing, but it seems the beta team is dead, the sites certainly are, and more attention is paid to ridiculous requests than to bug reports/problems

maybe Orion is going in a diff direction to me, but i'll be sticking to V7.61 for a while

[this instrument]

All of this "head butting" about how Orion should be this or that isn't really a relevant issue if the majority of music created with Orion within this forum is utter shite.

You could have just as endless and pointless an argument about the eurofag trance and anachronistic ebm/industrial drudge that permeates these forums.

I'm stating that this is _my opinion_ for the dunderheads that need the obvious made clearer.

[Dungeon Studio]

But it's a tool we're all using, and a tool the majority of us like to use. And with all the labels you spewed off CB - it can be used for a lot of types of music, good or bad as those who try their best with Orion. A lot of us are young dreamers and 'armchair amateurs' when PS2 gets boring. And quite a few here have 'been around the block, and/or still walking the beat' in the pro's and con's of the music biz. Everyone is valid, and 9.9 out of 10 they're going to ask something or suggest something about Orion that's there - or doesn't need to be there. I look at it more as an education than 'head butting'. Ignorance is bliss, and the internet is free - but why do many here not want something, or keep asking for another. How do they live without it, or use what I'm not understanding fully? Maybe I'm the one explaining it to them, and they think I'm a guru or a gasbag. And too, I've had Orion for near 8 years now. Krim and Bones and others a little longer - and it is what it is today because of 'head butting'. I agree with Krim, in that there isn't too much Rich can design and implement for Orion now. V8 may just have a few bug fixes, a new skin for Screamer, and a UltraFlange effect for all we know? And not that I would mind either. But I've seen a few good suggestions that's intriguing and considerable. If not Orion, other software or hardware I should investigate that could work in or outside of Orion.

Pro comes Platinum comes...? :confused:

[this instrument]

And with all the labels you spewed off CB - it can be used for a lot of types of music, good or bad as those who try their best with Orion.

All the labels? I only mentioned two offhand examples from observing this forum.

I would think that Richard would want to balance his vision for the future of Orion with budget, time, coding barriers, and the requests and input of his (hopefully) paying clients.

The idea that Orion can't be developed any farther is bullshit based on the opinions of two or three people on the forum. People whom I feel probably have no right directing a game of Guitar Hero, let alone the development of a virtual studio that I have been using for 7-8 years.

I haven't used a built in synth or drum machine in Orion since around ver 5. I use freeware and 3rd party vsts. I don't like any built in machines aside from the sampler. I use some of the effects, but on a limited basis. Would it be right for me to encourage all of you to cease and desist use of anything I don't utilize in Orion? Maybe I should make a new thread in the wishlist asking him to remove all the shit I don't use and make him bundle Orion with the esoteric freeware plugins that I use.

Most threads here end up with a certain person bullying HIS way of work flow and production into any situation like it's the word brought down from the heavens.

I don't use Orion even remotely the same way I have seen it described here by anyone over the years and the only reason I don't use Camtasia Studio to record some of my work flow to show it here is because it's MINE. It works for me and probably not for you.

Some people install the toilet roll in an overhand fashion and some prefer underhand. I don't use toilet paper at all.

[bones]

Sharing ideas is a great way for everyone to learn and get better at what we do. Assuming you have nothing to offer is selling yourself short. If nothing else, you might stimulate others to take some of your workflow and bend it to suit there own purposes.
I work as a demo artist for a software company, which exposes me to the way in which literally hundreds of people use the software I've been using for years. It has allowed me to build an absolutely bullet-proof workflow of my own, as I've been able to pick up things, often relatively insignificant on their own, and put them all together. best of all, I get to share that with hundreds of other users/customers, so that we all get better at our jobs. Overall though, I think we all do 90% of things in a very similar way, so I probably only stumble upon something useful one time in a hundred. Because it is such a rare thing, it's important to seek out as many different perspectives as possible.
If you think that I don't take anyone else's contributions seriously, you are sadly mistaken. What I do is to question people's motivation for doing a certain thing a certain way, when I can't see one for myself. I can give you a reason for at least 90% of the things I do so when people come back with a reason like "because that's how FL/Live/Cubase/etc does it", or "because I don't want to do this other way that everyone else does it that works just as well", you bet I am dismissive.
I question everything I do with my work and my music on a regular basis in the hope that it makes me better at what I do. If it's too much to ask others to do the same, and often it is, then that's their problem, not mine.

[this instrument]

If you think that I don't take anyone else's contributions seriously, you are sadly mistaken.

I would love to be happily mistaken., but if I have to be sadly mistaken today, then I guess that's alright.

[Reny]

if orion had automation and time-strech function..demn.
it would be something just amazing.
no cubase,fl or other host i don't need anymore.

[maschinenmusik]

it seems to be true that the dvelopment of ORION has slowed down a bit
in terms of new ideas, but so has the development of other hosts as well.

I still see no further development in terms of COMPOSITION only in terms of TECHNICAL features in all hosts.

We are now in a situation where a new softsynth or a new VST is not exiting any more, IMO.

But that is not ORION s fault or problem.

If the development of ORION stops now alltogether i will continue
working with it, and when i need features ORION doesn't have, i use something else.

[Kriminal]

If the development of ORION stops now alltogether i will continue
working with it

same here, infact, it hasnt stopped me making music since the first version i bought, before Pro, quite the opposite

[suneel]

i still listen to mods from an ancient era on a weekly basis. now that is a file composed in outdated tracker software. compare it with orion and you see the features provided in orion are simply staggering. but yet despite all this i go back and listen to mods built using an extinct software of an unknown era. i cherish these mods and treasure them dearly.

bottom line is => vision of a composer triumphs over technicality or any other mumbo-jumbo. dont be a daw nerd, strive to be a musician.

relax, take a deep breath, go for a walk, clear your mind, inspire yourself and then come back to work on your fav daw whatever it is!

[this instrument]

i still listen to mods from an ancient era on a weekly basis. now that is a file composed in outdated tracker software. compare it with orion and you see the features provided in orion are simply staggering. but yet despite all this i go back and listen to mods built using an extinct software of an unknown era. i cherish these mods and treasure them dearly.

bottom line is => vision of a composer triumphs over technicality or any other mumbo-jumbo. dont be a daw nerd, strive to be a musician.

relax, take a deep breath, go for a walk, clear your mind, inspire yourself and then come back to work on your fav daw whatever it is!

This era isn't exactly 'unknown' now is it? You and I are both aware of it.

[Icaro]

My observation is Orion has reached its maximal potential and perfection, so its development should be ended now!

I disagree (in part). I think Orion is for sure is the best in terms of digital studios, and don't see any real flaws with it now. Most of my friends warned me that it was pretty buggy for them, but the buggyness doesn't exist like it did before. There were some bugs I had problems with when I first started using the program, but those were cleaned up in the last few updates. I Absolutely love Orion, and feel I'm a prime example of how Orion inspires people, due to the fact that I came to Orion after a few of the major programs being used. I'm a studied sound engineer (don't read this as if I think I'm the shit, I don't, I just know my way around a little bit), and Orion felt far more natural to me than cubase, et. al., after comming from an analogue gear background.

However, change is the only constant. It's true that Orion works the way it should, but music programs cater more than just a certain perspective on how to work. This part is entirely Rich's decision on where to take Orion, and not ours. I think Rich has a very solid program, that is often neglected in some respect. I just read a comment by a guy in Computer Music, that was looking for a better (more professional) music program from the Magix Music Maker he was using. The response from the mag included Reaper, but failed to mention Orion. Why?

I'm taking a wild guess here, but it seems from a couple comments Rich made in the 'Piracy' thread, that he does care about Orion, in terms of commercial viability. There's a difference between evolving with good ideas, and being stagnant. Obviously we can filter out the bad ideas..... let me give an example........ I've been very supportive of the idea of 'replace generator' in the past, but I've since figured out that the problem was that I didn't know my own equipment enough. I wouldn't mind seeing the feature, but I no longer think it's needed.

Anyways, I think if Orion is to survive, then it needs to grow. Saying stop development, would limit Orion to a place where when new technology opens up to the market, Orion becomes obsolete....... and actually I'd stop to wonder a bit if the lack of consideration for new ideas, isn't already making Orion obsolete to users who decide to move to other programs because the changes happening help them to work better, in the way they want to. If we just limit ourselves to 'this works perfect this way for me, and it should for you', than we become stagnant, and the program dies.

My observation is this-------> 1. Rich knows what he's doing, and upgrades his software the way he sees it needs to be. 2. Some users on the forum see ideas for improvements as stupid, and proceed to bash the ideas others put forth. 3. discussing ideas pro or con, can and should be done without bashing. You might think it doesn't matter if a stupid person uses that same program as you, but user base is what allows Orion to be here. Kill new user base by offending people, and it slows thing down, possibly killing it. 4. Orion will have to adapt to stay alive.


and last but not least, this is my favorite software, so I would want to see it develope as far as it can go, not stop because my own personal way of doing things has been perfected.