yes....so i finally had to install jbridge to amuse myself how foolish it can be to use a 32bit wrapper on a 64bit host running on a 64bit os. and guess what? i wont be using jbridge at all.....unless i was being forced at gunpoint. but even so i could take a bullet or two before using it. tough eh? well here goes....
Initial Preparation
0. system:{core i7 920, 3gb ddr3 @1033mhz, emu1820m, xp64bit sp2}
1. Before you want to use 32bit plugins/instruments in orion64, you need to have the 32 bit plugin dll (obviously) and the jbridge proxy dll (plugin_name.64.dll) provided by jbridge.
2. i copied some of my 32bit plugins from my orion directory to orion64, just to keep them separate.
so if you have FM8.dll and want to use in orion64. You make a copy of plugin_name.64.dll and rename it to FM8.64.dll and place it where the FM8.dll is present. The same applies to each plugin you want to use. eg for Albino3.dll {Albino3.dll, plugin_name.64.dll->Albino3.64.dll}
As you can see its pretty bugging to go about doing this for your vast plugin list, i was about to quit and get back to my mirrors edge chase, but then since i spent some precious time on this, i decided to continue on. persistence!
3. For the test i used the following plugins
-FM8 (2x)
-FM8 fx
-Absynth4 stereo
-Golden Aset
-Albino
-Blue
-Gladiator
Loading/Running
All the plugins above loaded, except FM8fx, which is pretty impressive. During playback, also there where no clicks or pops. It takes slightly more loading time, but i guess its not a big thing. i get this pop up confirmation window that says i can only run it for 30mins and its irritating. guess its okay since its a demo. there where no crashes. But hey wait a minute, i know what your thinking, if the plugins are working + the sound is fine, it must be a good thing right? well yes and no comrades. but before you pull the champagne out, i insist you read on...just a little bit.
Workflow
workflow with jbridge is not a pleasant experience at all. its more like anal sex, which can be very painful ( i havent tried it though) or maybe not ( as i reckon some may like it )
For every plugin you wrap with jbridge, it will open an external window. Thus your plugin ui interface is outside orions 64 bit window. In orion's window you will see a small jbridge window that is linked to the mixer. when you click on the mixer, it will invoke this jbridge window. This window is a generic window for all wrapped plugins and has some generic checkbox options.
For my test sfs, i have about 7 external windows open as i have 7 generators. Now in orions usual workflow, you click at the bottom of the mixer, to pop up plugin window to get the interface. But with jbridge wrapped plugins, when you do that the external window will not pop up. You will have to guess which external window it is, by clicking on the external window individually. its sort of like the memory, game where you try to match pictures, which can be good for old people who's memory is diminishing due to old age. anyways the windows names of the plugins are also not visible. now i have only tested this with 7 generators, consider a larger set or even mixed 64bit and 32bit plugins. you will probably be playing tennis going back and forth between the poppable internal plugin windows and the external windows. It a total mess, a recipe for disaster!
here an image http://www.synthman-prophecies.com/pics/misc/orion64_and_jbridgeUI.jpg
Performance
This is broken down to sound, cpu and memory
[Sound]:using 7 32bit only generators i did not get any clicks or pop, which is a good thing. ( pls take a note of my system configuration also)
[Cpu]: For both the hosts the asio cpu usage was around 6-8%
[Memory]: Memory requirements are on the higher side as expected since its 64bit code.
orion: ~460mb http://www.synthman-prophecies.com/pics/misc/orion32_memUsage.jpg
orion64: ~609mb http://www.synthman-prophecies.com/pics/misc/orion64_and_jbridge_memUsage.jpg
Also i found out that when you use jbridge you will use 5mb/plugin extra, as that extra is the wrapper related IPC code.
Conclusion
jbridge works pretty well on my limited test set of 32bit plugins, considering the fact that it uses IPC to talk between orion64 and 32bit plugins. also there where no crashes encountered during the test. However plugins are loaded as external windows, which disrupts orions native worlflow and makes it unacceptable work with.
Looking at the memory performance using jbridge you will use extra ram+5mb/plugin and 64bit in general takes more ram. looking at cpu performance there was no difference as orion and orion64, both peaked at 8%. so 64bit doesn't provide higher performance as it is claimed to be.
pros
+ can actually use 32bit plugins on 64hosts (vice-versa not tested, but possible)
cons
- disrupts orions native workflow
- takes more ram
- certain plugins may not work
Recommendation
not that it matters, buy hey looks cools adding it. jbridge is a transient technology, once all the 32bit plugins have been ported to 64bit, it will become obsolete. there maybe some 32bit vendors who are not planning a 64bit and in such cases jbridge may be useful. But today most of the plugins are 32bit and until the heavy weights roll in favor of releasing 64bit versions, 32bit host is a safe bet considering 64bit not offering any real world performance gains. But if you have to use 32bit plugins in 64bit host, i would keep the instances to a minimum, like a couple.
jbridge tested on orion64Moderators: Christophe, Mark
35 posts
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jbridge tested on orion64Last edited by suneel on Tue May 26, 2009 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jbridge tested on orion64You won't notice any higher performance with the bridged 32bit plugins.
The cpu usage will remain the same. If you work with Orions native Plugins together with a few 32bit vsts you will see the difference since the included generators are highly optimized for 64bit. And that the plugins uses around 5MB more ram is not an issue either since you are not limited to 3Gb of ram like you are on a 32bit system. It was a Great Review and we all have different ways of working so what works for one man won't work for the other :cowboy: Last edited by D-Fusion on Tue May 26, 2009 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jbridge tested on orion64yeah i know, it was put their to educate other ppl who dont know....esp you know who. the performance is not an issue as both orion versions work at par under asio usage. nobody is questioning the optimization of orions native generators. agreed! but it was not pointed as issue, just as a fact. really? wow i had no idea, thanks! Last edited by suneel on Tue May 26, 2009 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jbridge tested on orion64
64 bit versions of VST's are being released everyday, any developer who fails to do this will fail in business, its a fact. Because not all are available at the same time, the jbridge is, as everyone has already stated, a good work-a-round for still being able to have all the advantages of a 64bit system and still use the odd synth/effect that hasnt yet been ported. Of course, there may be users who have synths/effects that will never be available as 64bit version for various reasons (company has ceased trading etc etc), in which case the jbridge will remain an essential part of that users arsenal, and not become obsolete. end transmission. Last edited by Kriminal on Tue May 26, 2009 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Windows 11 Home - 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-12400 2.50 GHz -32GB RAM
250GB SSD - 1TB HDD | M-Audio Oxygen 25 V
jbridge tested on orion64nice review & comments.
I beleive that I'll think to use 64bit as soon as my cpu will reach 90% in my track. I'm at arround 50 by now when it'ts finished on my Q6600. So I think I can wait... Dunnow how much cpu pro uses... must depend a lot from the artist. Orion 8, Live 8Le, Cubase 4 LE, Cantana, APC40, UC16, Fostex PM1MKII, Q9550, 4G0, 1,5T, 22"+15"
http://soundcloud.com/eklectro/i-like-xylo-29-03-2011
jbridge tested on orion64Only true 64-bit plugins can offer performance gains, not bridged 32-bit plugins.
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jbridge tested on orion64
im totally aware of that, its not what ive been saying in all these threads at all.... Windows 11 Home - 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-12400 2.50 GHz -32GB RAM
250GB SSD - 1TB HDD | M-Audio Oxygen 25 V
jbridge tested on orion64everyone who? you mean you and all your hairs?
jbridge tested on orion64
yes- wasn't a reply to your post Krim, just wanted to clarify suneel's statement above:
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jbridge tested on orion64
indeed..i think the boy is misguided..that someone has said using jbridge will give you better performance, whn in fact, no-one has said that. ive tried explaining the point many times, but it doesnt sink in. so, my final attempt.. lets say you are using win vista 64, orion 64 and various 64bit synths..lovely, all works nicley, and much more cpu efficient than if you have all that as 32 bits... one prob...'synth XXX' is only available in 32 bit version...solution? use jbridge! so you have all your 64 bit stuff, and now you can also load that 32bit synth you love in you set up...it wont be as efficient as a 64bit version, but there isnt one, so this is a great workaround. you really cant get much simpler than that, and anyone who doesnt understand that, should really take some time out to consider if its actually worth living at all ciao Windows 11 Home - 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-12400 2.50 GHz -32GB RAM
250GB SSD - 1TB HDD | M-Audio Oxygen 25 V
jbridge tested on orion64suneel's point is that unless you want to stop using 32 bit plugins all together, you should stay with a 32 bit host.. because otherwise you're running contrary to suneel's beliefs about the purpose of using 64 bit.
jbridge tested on orion64His beliefs are wrong V/M.
jbridge tested on orion64Just to point out, that it should be possible to embed 32-bit window inside a 64-bit host. I checked this when I was thinking ways to use 32-bit things in 64-bit application.
jbridge tested on orion64exactly. mixed mode is not true 64bit, besides jbridges workflow is a departure from orions as i mentioned it in the first post.
jbridge tested on orion64
why would it be that way? imagine you have 3 64bit double word registers. now you want to do floating point multiplication on an array of double words of size 2. eg a[0]*b[0] = c[0] and a[1]*b[1] = c[1] So you take register Ax64 and Bx64 and multiply it to Cx64. Suppose that happened in one clock cycle ( 1T). so for our array it will take 2T to do multiplication for a 64bit array of size 2. If you consider i did the same under SSE intrinsics, it will still be 2T, since i am only considering one Cx64 register. ( i know there are more 64bit registers, but its for the example) Now using the same registers Ax64 , Bx64 and Cx64, i will do 32bit multiplication on an array of 2. But i will use SSE and fit a[0] and a[1] onto register Ax64{low32, hi32} and likewise for b also. Then i will invoke SSE intrinsics and finish the multiplication in 1T. So as you can see i can actually do it faster with 32bit under SSE than 64bit also under SSE. So how exactly is 64bit faster? to me it seems if you use SSE on large data set 32bit will be faster since for every 64bit you can do 2x32bit. Last edited by suneel on Thu May 28, 2009 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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