Mastering

[Dungeon Studio]

As I had pointed out, and Bones agree's with - it's the 'adaptation' of one's mix to play well in numerous enivronments. And doesn't necessarily have to rely on mastering either. It could be acheived with a good mix, sure. I didn't like the way my stuff sounded when it was first mastered, but playing it around everywhere - I did. Bones was the reverse. I guess he must've liked it at the studio, but then didn't like it in cars and bars and underneath the stars. It was probably luck on my part finding the right guys, bad luck on Bones. And too like I said, it depends what style of music one makes. I don't think the average person is going to have Novakill around them much. Maybe a iPod, and blast the stereo when they get home. Now Daft Punk is a bit different. When they first came out, their CD was HEAVY - which I liked. I loaned my CD to a A-hole that never returned it. And with the success of that Big City Nights, and hearing that 'Around The World' in dentists offices and supermarkets. I bought the CD again... It wasn't as HEAVY now? It's still good, but I think the label remastered the CD as it started becoming such a hit - so it adapted better to car's, store PA's, clock radio's. Oh right, and I got a EP of their's shortly after with Da Funk and Rolling And Scratching and some others. Now that was HEAVY! Overly heavy IMHO - but obviously destined for club DJ's and die hard fans. So again, mastering saved Daft Punk in that regard I'd say.
But the first issues were great, and probably more of Daft Punks doing than mastering?

And so help me, if I ever hear Novakill as I'm get novacane in a dentists office... Bones better have done the Muzak Mix is all I can say.

[Synthetic Sensations]

You might find some useful advice within Synthetic Sensations magazine!

Synthetic Sensations

[Dungeon Studio]

Hey hey! Blue Gene's back! Can you please PM me, as I need to talk to you about advertising in your mag.

[machinist]

You might find some useful advice within..a magazine

best advice is to see professional, not read a mag and 'have a go'

[Synthetic Sensations]

Sure, that's the ultimate best advice. I agree. But if one cannot afford such services then what is one to do?

If you've got money to throw at a professional then good for you! If you haven't then empower yourself and take advice / guidance from those who have been there.

It's entirely up to you!

[Dungeon Studio]

Mag's can be helpful too, to some extent. One thing though is to test the extremes of what's recommended. IE; If a comp insert is called for at 4:1, hard knee and about -14db - test it with 0db and -60db, soft knee, 16:1 ratio. To hear the extremes in some cases gives better appreciation for the lesser amounts. And/or are the most less that detectable and worthy?

Again, it's good to learn from say Mr. Oizo or Depeche Mode, as they no doubt learned from Thomas Dolby and Keith Emerson to some degree. I hate the articles 'How to sound just like Daft Punk - it's easy'' Good for learning perhaps, but is an approximation still. And should be used as a rough guideline at best. Depending on gear and software at hand.

[Synthetic Sensations]

Me too... I hate those articles myself, 'How to sound like...' I just don't think that it's good for music! But that's me!

[Dungeon Studio]

It cheapens it all. Especially now where one with Cubase or OP actually CAN sound as good as Depeche Mode and Amon Tobin et al with a few synths, a few effects, a few notes here and there. I know Suneel and I and others have done a few 'video tutorials' for OP. I know for mine, it's so rudimentary in how I get 'my sound' with Smart Electronix effects and OP. I hope it helps those that are trying to grasp glitch and lo-fi... But do I really want someone copying my efforts and creativity verbatim - hell no! I don't mind being compared to Aphex Twin and whoever. But I don't listen to Aphex Twin now because of it, which is sad - as I really like RJ. The more 'modern' I want to sound, the less modern music I listen to. To me, I'm ripping off PiL, Flying Lizards, Stereolab still - badly. But when someone says I'm like so and so's chill out darkwave psytrance stuff, that's cool. I'll check a track or two out, don't see the similarity - and move on into polka music or something.

Are you answering e-mails at the mag again? I know people trying to get in touch with you. They can help fund #4 - 'Abstinence, Ecstacy, and Psytrance'. Oop's, did I let the Gizmodo out of the bag again. :rofl:

[Synthetic Sensations]

Yes, it does cheapen it all. It's weird, but I don't know how these magazines think that they're doing music good by showing others how to copy their idols! So much music sounds the same. It's depressing!

Yeah, sure I am answering emails!

[Dungeon Studio]

I think before with like Keyboard Magazine, most of the 'prog rockers' as I call them had the BIG modulars and fancy polyphonic Oberheims. So even if you were rich enough to own a Mini Moog or a Arp Axxe, it was good to get 'close to the sound' of Carlos, or Wakeman, et al.
When I got my first mono-synth (Yamaha CS10) and beat box (Korg KPR77), I was out to make music like Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire - not knowing what they used or how they used it. I was just going to make angry rythmic noises. Then I saw Depeche Mode live on their Speak And Spell tour... Oh crap, is that a CS15 I see on stage AND a KPR77? So soon as I got home, I turned a few knobs, programmed the beat - and there I was playing 'Just Can't Get Enough' like a inept moron. I got to admit, it was fun. And to be THAT close to the sound. Thankfully, I went back to angry droney industrial music as best I could. Damn that Depeche stuff, and Heaven 17, and New Order... And Human League...Gary Numan...phphphphpt! But I think it all started influencing me and my music. Even though I was trying to copy TG's 'Discipline', it was coming off more 'United'. And friends started liking it. I wasn't the brooding goth hippy anymore!
Then Pere Ubu beat the hell out of me when I wanted to go in that direction. So all this talk about mastering and what all inspired me to put up these old gems I did around '86 with this gal Jodi Krangle. And pulled out ALL the stops (so I thought) to say 'Here, this is BETTER than New Orders Bizarre Love Triangle' that being our song 'Japan'
(Yes, I'm aware of the group as well - bit of a double play on that one.) Check this link to hear... http://www.reverbnation.com/thegroupof77

So as much as I worked my ass off to be as good or better than New Order and all with the big cheesy dance hits, people hated it. And for a short time I wanted to learn everything New Order did and how they did it, and make something bigger than Blue Monday. But then it dawned on me finally, the reason Blue Monday was such a hit was it was so 'original'... Not anything like Joy Division, Donna Summers, Olivia Newton John, Rod Stewart. So thankfully 'I saw the light' at that point. :rofl:

[Synthetic Sensations]

I think it's good to not know what others use. That's why I'm so bored with the mags that go on and on about gear! It's about musical ideas! I used to read about these guys and their expensive gear and what not, then I listen to the music and I can't see where all that equipment is justified.

I will listen to your track tomorrow! I am whacked!

[Dungeon Studio]

This is what troubles me as well. So many are so anal about 'sound quality' regardless what they play. Orchestra's to kazoo's. Celine Dion to William Hung - it's got to sound AMAZING. And most people here and abroad do now. Some read and listen and take courses. Others just turn up the volume and add a lot of bass and get lucky. The one thing that frightens me about young people getting into OP and all today, they miss that 'respect' for anything. Bones, and I and I'm sure a few others here experienced and used argueably 'the most affordable' at the time to make it sound the best. Tape machines, synths, MIDI sequencers, Casio samplers. Swear a blue streak when the tape got chewed, understand the small screens and buttons, detest that awful sound of a sampled voice. But we did what we could with it. Awkward live shows, horrendous cassette demo's, Letraset posters and sleeves. Nowadays it's all for granted in OP and all. Things I spent thousands for years ago just for the instruments. And here they all are pretty well, AND pro studio effects to boot! 909's, Tomcat's, DrumRacks, Samplers... And if that's not good enough, buy a EKS9. Compressors, Limiters, Saturators - oh my! Not good enough, get a free one at KVR. Still not good enough? Get a cracked version of something expensive and wait a month for the update. So for the likes of Bones and I - OP's our 'salad days' bar none. But I'm fascinated with the new generations, born 1995 and later. I honestly think the trend will be 'sound' over 'style'. So far as just to get a say Daft Punk song, put it in OP and make it sound better and expect accolades for it. Which makes me think of the 70's again, when stereo shops had big expensive equalizers and floating turntables and amps that looked like they should be in NASA... Just to play a $6.49 record.

So we come all the way back to poor Filofax that started all this. How old are you my lad? Do you want to sound 'just like' Daft Punk, or BETTER than them? Do you want to get close to that sound, then do something completely new with it? Play a ukelele over it, distort it so it's hardcore industrial? It's all possible with OP, I can assure you.
And the big question then is 'then what?', you want a club smash hit. go live, make a phenomial album, make awesome videos to them.
Or just keep your day job and have something to do when you get home? It's fine either way here. Just curious is all.

I should be drunk off my ass now too, but I got dumped. Nothing like blabbing they night away here at the circle jerk fest. :rofl:

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Steven, what the hell got into you? I'm starting to feel like you got all bitter down from that cheery DS we all know. And for some reason it started with this topic.

I read your post and I felt my head exploding from trying to understand what the hell you were trying to say. In some of your previous posts you almost came to the border of calling us egoistic selfish self-loving arrogant bastards just because we make music (I don't think you crossed it, though ). But why is that arrogance? What difference does it make why anyone here or anywhere else makes music? What happened to the love for music? That doesn't exist anymore, or has it turned to be a "personal therapy"?

Seriously, don't presume too much. What makes you think there's no respect for those people who come from a full hardware era, when there weren't computers to aid in the process? The very same people who had to rewind the entire recording if just one thing went wrong, I for one have the utmost respect for those people, and being that you worked like that, you're included. So why that presumption? There's no way one can get inside people's heads and poke around just to see if there's respect or not.

Sound has became a necessity, style suffers. That's how it is, that's what it became. But that's also an indicator of what's good and what's bad. I know that first hand, and now being tied to a label makes me realize that more and more. People want to sound like their idols? Let them. And if they even manage to do something with it, like releasing it, well that's just fine too.

Cheer up and don't worry about stuff too much, you'll feel better

[machinist]

Sure, that's the ultimate best advice. I agree. But if one cannot afford such services then what is one to do?

If you've got money to throw at a professional then good for you! If you haven't then empower yourself and take advice / guidance from those who have been there.

It's entirely up to you!

depends what you are doing with you music, but mastering yourself will more than likely make the track sound worse unless you are very good at it, or lucky...

if you are sending demos to labels, mastering is a very bad idea..they are looking for musical talent, not mastering talent, they already have that

[Dungeon Studio]

I wouldn't say sound is quite the neccesity Hypna. Sure, it's great we can do what we do with OP and all. And some will be better than others at it. As has been for centuries making music, writing scores, recording, playing live. But does OP and Cubase and WaveLab and Audacity make for bigger expectations now? Whereas before, one could stick a cheap cassette into a jet=pack envelope, send it to Virgin, wait a few months and no doubt get a form letter back saying 'Thanks, but no thanks at this time. Please try again.' And from that one would practice more, save for a new synth, consider going to a recording studio, dye their hair black - make a commitment to improving. Today, that commitment comes from the comfort of ones chair. Download a better synth, read a online tutorial, upload to 10 music sites free or charge a $1 whatever. PhotoShop to change the pic. Fantastic in a way, yes.
But what are listeners actually judging on now? The fundamentals had been rythem, melody, lyrics, hook. Songs that people had fun with, could relate to, get insight from. I think it's diminished greatly now in place of rythem, sonic quality, technique, and lifestyle. Is that good or bad on the evolutionary music scale? I don't know - and not sure if I want to know?

And it would be fine if the whole skew was going that way. Pink and Kelly Clarkson got Cubase or preferably OP in their homes for their future albums. They or the like probably do now. But chances are would be horrible to the worst cassette demo's still. Just something to get some rough ideas in, a vocal track, some chorus maybe, and off to the studio they go. All to be totally replaced and enhanced. So does that cheapen OP or Cubase, or Pink and Kelly Clarkson?

I just find it so interesting that from the 40's to the 90's - 50 years; success was based on a piece of vinyl with a nice jacket, published music, quality live perfomances, and promotion. If an aspiring person like Arlo Guthrie or Rosemary Clooney wanted to send a demo, they'd be lucky if they could find a 'Make Your Own Record' booth in a big city. Beg a radio station, send out sloppy written sheet music, and hope. But a HUGE difference between that cheap acetate disc, pieces of paper, and a RCA record and radio broadcasts. Music publishers, labels, radio stations, television broadcasters could listen to gritty records or tapes, look at a tarnished photo of Elvis beside a truck and say 'that guys got it!' Today, and using Daft Punk as an example - why do they 'got it'? Though I think they make great music - it was gimmick all the way. Brilliant to not ever 'see' the band members, to get Spike Jonez to do a video with a human like dog character with a broken leg wandering the streets. Slick packaging and 'credit cards' to boot. Total gimmick, that sadly got tired fast. And without the gimmicks, what do they have? Beat, sound, samples. The same that we all have today.

But then to use Novakill as an example, the 'gimmick' carries on. It's become a lifestyle for them and their audience. As long as Bones and Sik look the part, play the part and don't deviate from it greatly, they're fine and successful - and for years to come I'd say. Bones likes the music, is good at making it and instruments for it, putting out slick product and promotion for it, and has a loyal fan base that support and hopefully perpetuate Novakills creativity.

Now here's the rub... If Novakill, or myself suddenly wanted to go 'old school' seriously. Record on 24 track tape, use nothing but real analog gear and hardware, AND come out with a album that sounds inferior to previous recordings. It wouldn't do any harm in the least. In fact, it's probably the only thing that could resurrect Daft Punk for one last hurrah at attention and fame. More so than The Chemical Brothers.

And what would users of OP and Cubase et al do then? Would Suneel go out and buy an expensive Nord? Filofax buy a secondhand Moog?
Just to be in some way that 'old school' revival? To enhance and further goa music, to beat Daft Punk at their own game? And in turn, would sound suffer or be more excited by it? To hear the hum again, the dirt on the pots, the distorted level into OP. I myself would let it go, and I don't think Bones would be too concerned about it either - he knows the score with those things. But Suneel? Filofax? Even our beloved overlord and gear junkie extrondinaire Rich?

Anyhow - I think there is this increasing rise to 'sonic perfection'. Good for some, bad for others. But I think and hope that someone - Novakill, Daft Punk, myself, Pink, go against that. Just record nice songs by a campfire onto a Zoom or a dictaphone. Or bring out the old Korgs and Rolands and MIDI cables again and keep the VU's in the red. I think it will come as a complete shock to everyone, and sound so incredibly different to OP and all. What that does to perception, OP sales, and trend length is hard to say. But it's a risk I hope the right person or group will make at some point. Just to challenge their own and listeners anal complacency of quality vs. substance.

Why I 'Feel Sorry For Thom Yorke' in a way. Radioheads doing it, but not making the impact I for one had hoped for.