To Master Mastering

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To Master Mastering

Postby DivinEviL616 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:55 am

Nah, nothing that serious I just wanted the title to look all epic and shit...

Seriously though, I would like to ask for tips'n'tricks for mastering a song in Orion. I haven't had too much experience with the concept inside of Orion but learned alot from previous work and already have a few things up my sleeve regarding Orion. So far this is what I've been doing.

After I have a basic instrument mix on the regular mixing desk I move over to the mastering desk.

On the Mastering Desk I set Ch. 01 to 50% Left, Ch. 02 to 25% left, Ch. 03 to 50% right, and Ch. 04 to 25% right.

From there I dial in different amounts of a single sound into the 4 different channels and build my stereo image, and that's pretty much all my pony can do. I've been able to move sounds and instruments around with good precision but would like to start bringing some more forward with some nuances the allude to up or down. I'd love to just do some surround sound mixes but who the fuck would care about that besides me? lol

Anyway, I'm looking for more things I can do to beef up my tracks. I figure at this point I have enough material for either a 'scraps' LP or a fat EP - perhaps if I release that for sale it could generate enough income for me to get some new stuff! :)
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby kmatm » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:08 am

Well two things from me, other than the track I did a month or so ago for the 'All Orion' comp I've never completely mastered a track in Orion, and 2) I have done anything resembling the track (I presume you mean Bus?) panning you are doing?

But what I do have in my master channel are three non-Orion plugins that I've saved by default. First is a 'warmer' of the vintage variety, then a stereo imager (that I turn on and off as required), and lastly is a wavey Brickwall limiter - very important!

When using the native Orion plugins, I would suggest (as has been suggested somewhere previously) to use the Band-FX Control with perhaps an EQ and compressor in each of those in the first insert. Second insert a general EQ or compressor, vice-versa foe the third insert, and finally the Brickwall limiter in the fourth insert.
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby DivinEviL616 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:47 am

kmatm wrote:Well two things from me, other than the track I did a month or so ago for the 'All Orion' comp I've never completely mastered a track in Orion, and 2) I have done anything resembling the track (I presume you mean Bus?) panning you are doing?

But what I do have in my master channel are three non-Orion plugins that I've saved by default. First is a 'warmer' of the vintage variety, then a stereo imager (that I turn on and off as required), and lastly is a wavey Brickwall limiter - very important!

When using the native Orion plugins, I would suggest (as has been suggested somewhere previously) to use the Band-FX Control with perhaps an EQ and compressor in each of those in the first insert. Second insert a general EQ or compressor, vice-versa foe the third insert, and finally the Brickwall limiter in the fourth insert.



Thank you for those suggestions! :) I've been meaning to explore more into the band-fx holder and this is the perfect excuse! lol Anyway, at my soundcloud page is a song called...screw it here's a link.

http://soundcloud.com/konspiracy-kitchen/harmless-radium-isotopes-free

Anyway, this was the first song I used that technique on. I stumbled upon it quite accidentally when I was listening to the finished product and couldn't find anything else to do to it that wouldn't mess it up and inspiration hit and I sort of stated doing that panning thing I mentioned in my previous posts and suddenly shit started popping out of the song. The opening bass riff for example just jumped into that state out of nowhere. When you listen to previous versions you can't here all that gritty goodness that grinds up the intro. It's there when you really focus but the result of that techniques application brought out soooooo much depth to the patch. You can also hear a little bit of that technique in the newest track I posted tonight called 'Just A Filler Song'
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby kmatm » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:03 am

Hard to tell without hearing the original, but I did notice there is either some intentional panning, or some unintentional phasing going on with the distorted bass at the beginning of the track.

I am presuming you are sending all tracks to all 4 master busses at the same time, then using those 4 busses for panning?

It could be you are introducing some sort of phasing that way...?

One thing I didn't mention earlier is I also have a default drum compressor on a bus that I always send my drums through.
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby DivinEviL616 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:19 am

kmatm wrote:Hard to tell without hearing the original, but I did notice there is either some intentional panning, or some unintentional phasing going on with the distorted bass at the beginning of the track.

I am presuming you are sending all tracks to all 4 master busses at the same time, then using those 4 busses for panning?

It could be you are introducing some sort of phasing that way...?

One thing I didn't mention earlier is I also have a default drum compressor on a bus that I always send my drums through.


That panning is in the patch, in fact what i did to it in the mastering desk leveled out that panning you mentioned. The version I've uploaded is the first version of the song. It's only been through a total of 3 sessions. This one which created the 'demo' I call Kitchen Stadium, the second one which created the version of soundcloud and a frozen version that I have just been experimenting with. So all in all I haven't done too much work to this one...

If you listen to the track lets play a game, you'll notice the near lack of drums. This is where I discovered the limitations in the technique I was using. Check your PM I have a question about your compressor.

http://soundcloud.com/konspiracy-kitchen/kitchen-stadium

Some might think it's better, but I just think it's louder! lol Mind the volume in case soundcloud didn't normalize...
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby bones » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:07 pm

DivinEviL616 wrote:On the Mastering Desk I set Ch. 01 to 50% Left, Ch. 02 to 25% left, Ch. 03 to 50% right, and Ch. 04 to 25% right.

What are you talking about here? Are you using 4 busses or are you talking about the Returns? Both ideas are poor but I'll wait for clarification before I tell you why.
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby DivinEviL616 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:16 pm

I am using the returns... I've been playing with it and I'm agreeing that it's not the proper methodology. I do manage to arrange my pretty stereo image, but I also seem to be making things WAY TOO LOUD in the process.
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby Teksonik » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:37 pm

Why not just Pan the individual instrument's Mixer tracks?
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby Lance » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:47 pm

For me the panning stuff is more of a mixing thing than mastering and I wouldn't prefer to do panning in such a mathematical way.

Stereo field and spatial features are instrument specific for me. Some instruments must be pretty mono-ish and in the middle.

In my view the main goals of mastering are to increase the real and perceived loudness of the mix, while avoiding of distroying the important dynamics of the music, to achieve clarity and cohesion.

Most essential tools; a low cut filter and a brickwall limiter. If the mixing is done correctly you doesn't really need too much extra stuff.

But there are two main routes to do mastering. One way is to do it on the final mix, on a single or a quasi-single stereo [audio] track and the other way is to do it in cohesion with the mixing simultaneously through the whole process of making a song. The latter is requiring basically the same guy(s), the musicians to be good at mastering too. It's the modernest less classical method, but I know many big name pros who'd hate not to do 'in-house' mastering.
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby DivinEviL616 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:35 pm

For me the panning stuff is more of a mixing thing than mastering and I wouldn't prefer to do panning in such a mathematical way.


I don't see it being so mathematical but I do agree it's a very rigid set up. The way I see what I was doing with the panning was setting up a field between 50% left and right with a 25% marker in the middle of them as a secondary station. I was going to start playing with 'free range' positioning, making one of the channels something other than the 50/25% standard I had going, just before bones replied.

Stereo field and spatial features are instrument specific for me. Some instruments must be pretty mono-ish and in the middle.


Yes I completely agree, certain 303ish sounds for me should come from a fixed point in the range, not just the middle, in my ears at least. Sometimes I like a good straight up middle bass, and at other times I want to smear it's frequencies across the panorama.

In my view the main goals of mastering are to increase the real and perceived loudness of the mix, while avoiding of distroying the important dynamics of the music, to achieve clarity and cohesion.


This is the exact philosophy that I am trying to approach this with, so check...


Most essential tools; a low cut filter and a brickwall limiter. If the mixing is done correctly you doesn't really need too much extra stuff.


For the sake of diagnostics could you give an example of how to use both of these in a mastering situation?

But there are two main routes to do mastering. One way is to do it on the final mix, on a single or a quasi-single stereo [audio] track and the other way is to do it in cohesion with the mixing simultaneously through the whole process of making a song. The latter is requiring basically the same guy(s), the musicians to be good at mastering too. It's the modernest less classical method, but I know many big name pros who'd hate not to do 'in-house' mastering.


I believe the simultaneous method would serve me best, and I've already developed a few habits that would be right at home doing things that way.

@Teksonik - like I was mentioning before, I want to spread the instruments frequencies around not just move it here and there. Perhaps taking the bass's mid range and stacking it on or 'behind' something else off to the left while keeping the low and hi relatively in the same space. I should have explained that in my OP sorry for the confusion.
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby Teksonik » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:47 pm

Ok I see now what you mean.........Would using Busses be something to try? You'd be able to move frequencies and Pan without adding loudness like when using Sends.......... :)
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby DivinEviL616 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:58 pm

Teksonik wrote:Ok I see now what you mean.........Would using Busses be something to try? You'd be able to move frequencies and Pan without adding loudness like when using Sends.......... :)


Well now... I like that, could you give me a simple example of what you mean?

Let say in the main mixer I have 8 drum channels, a channel containing toxic3, and three different channels contain an instance of DUNE each....purely hypothetical of course, if this were a real track I'd just send it to you and have you show me that way.

Thinking of it would that be better? Find one of my tracks with all Orion built-in's and some DUNEage?
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby Teksonik » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:07 pm

You could send the Drums to one Buss or in your example you could give them Busses 1-4 and that would still leave you a separate Buss for Toxic and each of the three Dunes. Although I still think for individual instruments you'd be better to use the Main Mixer strip itself and just Pan and EQ however you want from there...... :)

You could send all the Bass parts to one Buss and all the Lead parts to another Buss and so on.......
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby DivinEviL616 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:28 pm

Teksonik wrote:You could send all the Bass parts to one Buss and all the Lead parts to another Buss and so on.......


I use iDrum for my drums and this is already pretty similar to the way I route my samples.

Low end - Kicks all get one channel each. Sub bass hits and basic low end precs get lumped into a single channel

Mid - Tom's and certain perc samples get a channel. Snare gets its own channel if I have two or more (i.e. acoustic and different electronic flavors) they are coupled.

Then High range samples such as cymbals are all lumped into a channel. Hi-Hats are all assigned to a single dedicated channel.

This leaves me with 2 extra channels in case I feel like a sound needs its own later... From there I fine tune both pan and level via iDrum and micro managed adjusting on those via the channel strips.

So is this analogous to what you were talking about regarding the busing?

*side note*
would it be practical to keep this or a similar arrangement over using iDrum for more traditional drum sounds and DrumRack for my perc hits and what not? I've been contemplating the change in set up for favor of assigning less samples per channel, but if I open them in a new iDrum then I end up with 8 more channels and might only use 3 of them.
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Re: To Master Mastering

Postby kmatm » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:02 pm

I send all my drums channels into Bus1, where I have the drum compressor. I will often use individual compressors and EQ on the individual drums tracks in the mixer, but after that, all drums channels through bus1 and the drum compressor.

Likewise in the dubstep track I just did, the sub bass and distorted bass all pass through another bus with frequency enhancer and compressor, as well as any processing on their individual tracks in the mixer.
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