Mid January richard mentioned they did have plans for a new sequencer, although it would be a long time in development.
What kind of functionality would Orionauts like to see in a new sequencer if it were to manifest beyond an embryonic state?
I absolutely connect to the pattern based system in Orion, but would like to see automation lanes in song view so you can visually track record/written automations.
Ability to group channels, such as assigning a set of tagged faders to a single fader.
An updated version of the Ultran with a mod matrix would be kick ass.
I have been very content with Orion as my work flow has really oozed into Orion, what key features would any one like to see that was not available previously?
Synapse audio new sequencer embryoModerators: Christophe, Mark
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Synapse audio new sequencer embryo---=u f o=--- /Radiation Mutant / Snee-Nee-Iq
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryoSo basically this is just a Orion 9 feature wish list. Until we know more about what and if the new sequencer will be, feature requests are not of much practical use.
But having said that I'm willing to bet that some type of Stretch Engine will be critical if the new project is to have a chance of success........ At any rate I don't suppose listing feature requests will do any harm I just don't think they'll do much good at this point....... but they will give us something to argue errr I mean talk about...........
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryoIm happy with it 'as is'
Bug fixes would be nice. Any 'improvements' are welcome too. Windows 11 Home - 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-12400 2.50 GHz -32GB RAM
250GB SSD - 1TB HDD | M-Audio Oxygen 25 V
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryoAgreed in regards to Orion. The new project Rich hinted at is another subject.
A few bug fixes for Orion before development stops altogether would indeed be nice. There are some features of convenience that I'd still like such as a plugin manager and custom key bindings but not much on a functional level. I know Stretch and Automation seem to be the most often mentioned functional features. I would still like to see some effort made to bring someone new on board to keep working on Orion allowing Rich and Marcin to focus on creating new synths and effects. I get the impression that Orion is as dear to Rich's heart as it is to ours so I'm sure he doesn't want it to just die any more than we do...... Orion will continue to function for the foreseeable future but I'm already seeing plugins refusing to function in the latest version and I imagine that trend will only get worse. As for the new sequencer I'd love to see a way for Orion's Pattern Per Generator Workflow to live on perhaps even as a separate plugin which might actually be more financially lucrative if it's even technically possible. But again until and unless we know that new sequencer project will even become a reality it's all just speculation.
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryoThe question is why would they bother? With such limited resources why would they even try to compete with the likes of Ableton, Bitwig or ImageLine. Especially with Live and FLstudio being so entrenched. Stick to making brilliant synths. This is where Synapse blows the competition away.
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryo
They're not "bothering" at least anymore and I don't think anyone blames them for making a sound business decision. My point is that just because Rich and Marcin would rather focus on making synths and effects....and again who can blame them.....it still might be possible to interest another coder to carry on with Orion's development in some kind of arrangement. It might be a long shot and if Synapse is not interested in pursuing such an arrangement then Orion's development has indeed ended for good. But Rich has at least hinted about a new sequencer project hence the purpose of this thread it's just a matter of if, when, and what at this point............
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryo
Totally right, I see no future for further producing a sequencer. The manpower behind will not change so the result will always stay behind the marked. Thinking of companies like Ableton with more than 150 employees and 12,5+ Mio. EUR revenue per year (2013), it just makes no sense to develop a new squencer, except you get funding from a venture capital firm or privat investor which is very unlikely as producing a sequencer is not really a new nor great idea these days and the German venture capital market is not known as one of the best in the world. You would need at least 2 to 3 Mio. EUR funding to start something reasonable which has half a chance to survive the first 3 years. As Koval said, plug-ins is what synapse is really good at and the manpower is sufficient. I hardly doubt that a new sequencer is taken into consideration. And if, I would not go for it as it just needs more than 2 developers to get a state of the art sequencer done and keep up the pace.
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryo
Richard developed Orion by himself for the most part and that was good enough for you for 10 years so...
Do you know that for sure ?
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryo
Sure, but Orion was build up within 10 years. And important elements still did not make it into the product within that time. If you want to compete against the market (and without that goal it makes no sense to start to develop a new sequencer as the purpose is making money here), you have to come along with something very powerful or a very niche market product that the market is still missing. 8.6 is the last version as it's not worth going further with that product. As Rich mentioned, the user base is 5% compared to the one of Orion's plugins. Producing something new that again will not generate more users makes no sense, so the aim must be more and that more only comes with implementaion and man power. I don't think that Rich will try the same again. Either a niche product/something new and state of the art or more manpower. I'm sure he'd rather spent time in developing plugins which sell much better than the sequencer than doing the same thing again, just with a new sequencer.
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryo
Sequencer does not necessarily mean DAW..............
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryoYou make a good observation Tek. Could be a bit of comp for Mark's new device! If so, I hope it runs flawlessly in Orion
One has to wonder if some ideas were not implemented due to technical restrictions, ie, how RH code was implemented. Perhaps Richard's ideas require a rewrite from the ground up so things like automation and controller conversations, VST 3 etc can be better realized. I do recall some thing was not followed through due to inability to preserve backward compatibility. Perhaps this has hampered other developments. Who knows. Peace ---=u f o=--- /Radiation Mutant / Snee-Nee-Iq
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryoWhatever will come, I'll go a different way starting in June.
But as mentioned will support Orion if something interesting plugin wise shows up. : )
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryo
Glad to see someone else trying to think of ways to keep Orion Alive Surpisingly, a lot of users that have been here awhile just gave up without a second thought.. I have already contacted the developer of Pydaw (now discontinued) but he is working on another daw but he was highly interested and said he loved Orion. He made a few lenghty replies in the kvr thread. There is also the developer of a DAW called CHAOTIC daw ( which has also been discontinued) but is very similar to orion as well. I've tried to find ways to contact him but his info is not on the github page. Might be worth tracking him down. Mulab seems similar to orion too, might be worth seeing if that guy can do anything...
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryo
To be honest, I was not very interested in the continuation of the program. The software was lacking a lot of features for years and the decision to discontinue finally made me have a look into another thing and HEUREKA... All I was missing is there. If Orion would have kept the pace then I would say, go for it. Who wants to learn another DAW and spent a lot of time and effort into mastering it the same way as the DAW you master. But it didn't change in years. The updates were marginal. So, in the end, it was a good decision.
Re: Synapse audio new sequencer embryo
The other DAWs are a headache to make a quick schema of a song. In this topic, Orion is unbeatable. Probably FL Studio is near... but when the project becomes bigger is a chaos. Orion keeps everything simple, easy to see in the screen what are you doing, even in big projects. Of Course, without using the Song Automations. I'm trying to keep Orion alive for ever. Testing it with Virtual Machines, because future hardware/software incompatibilities will come sooner or later. At this moment, everything works fine, but I can't solve the sound delay yet, but... probably there will be an easy solution to run ASIO Drivers with Virtual Machines. "Pleeease, bring back ORION!"
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