Dune 3 mixer

[ghuinink]

As Dune 3 is sort of 8 synths, why not a mixer to easy mix all the layers. maybe add send fx there also
just like Omnisphere...

[Teksonik]

A mixer has been requested by others in the past.

Perhaps it's because DUNE 3 is 8 layers and each layer has 5 faders that creating a functional 40 fader mixer might not be that easy. Even leaving out the Ring Mod and Noise faders it would still require 24.

I've always thought that a new tab at the bottom where the FX etc tabs are now might work but again fitting in the proper number of faders might present a problem without making everything too cramped. Then there are the Pan knobs as well.

As it is now we can do changes to all layers at once by staying on the All tab on the "Active/Edit" row and we can Mute/Solo with the "Voices Solo" buttons.

[Kriminal]

Its just 8 faders if it's layer volume only. I assume that's what he means

[Kriminal]

Its just 8 faders if it's layer volume only. I assume that's what he means



OSC3 labels would read L1 to L8.... that's a really old image from beta forum

[ghuinink]

Its just 8 faders if it's layer volume only. I assume that's what he means

indeed, just like in omnisphere

[Teksonik]

But what if you want to adjust Osc 2 volume in relation to Osc 1 on Layer 4 or just Osc 3 on Layer 5 etc? What if you want to pan Osc 1 left and Osc 2 right on Layer 1 and so on and then how would a Layer pan knob work in relation?

In my opinion, to be worth the development effort a mixer should be as comprehensive as possible or you're not really saving too many mouse clicks.

In the end a mixer wouldn't add any functionally we don't already have it would just make that function more convenient. We can already adjust all the volumes now, it's just a matter of more mouse clicks. I'm not against a mixer but again I think it should be as comprehensive as possible to bring the most convenience.

There is room on the lower section for more Tab buttons so I think a Mixer section and moving the Mod Matrix down so all 32 slots could be viewed at once might be a good idea but then again it's a matter of being able to fit everything on each section without being so crowded it would be difficult to work with.

[Kriminal]

But what if you want to adjust Osc 2 volume in relation to Osc 1 on Layer 4 or just Osc 3 on Layer 5 etc? What if you want to pan Osc 1 left and Osc 2 right on Layer 1 and so on and then how would a Layer pan knob work in relation?

It's just a mock up, just volume would be fine, but pan would be useful. I explained how it works before, but you struggled with it.

If you want to pan individual osc, do that, if you want to pan individual layers, do that. All volume values are relative, it's pretty easy.

Anyway, it's been a request for years, so it's unlikely to happen, unless a certain person asks for it

[Teksonik]

It's just a mock up, just volume would be fine, but pan would be useful. I explained how it works before, but you struggled with it.

The problem is you have struggled to come up with a viable solution. You have to think it through. Say I have Osc 1 panned hard left and Osc 2 panned hard right on one layer how would pan on a layer mixer work then? What if Osc 1 is too loud in layer one but the rest are fine? A layer mixer would do nothing in that case and you'd be right back on the layer mixer and so on. The saving in mouse clicks and cursor travel would be minimal at best.

A fully featured Osc mixer would make sense. It would at least give you a visual overview of the volume and pan of all 24 Oscs (I doubt there would be room for RM and Noise). A partial one just for layers does not since you'd still be clicking back and forth to adjust individual Osc volume and individual Pan.

In my opinion a full featured mixer would earn a legitimate spot on the DUNE 3 wish list but I don't know how high up it would be on that list in terms of priority. Development time might be better spent on other new features or new projects.

Again we can do everything that a mixer could do right now it's just a matter of mouse clicks and cursor travel. The only thing missing and the only additional function would be an overview of all Oscs at a single glance.

[Kriminal]

It's just a mock up, just volume would be fine, but pan would be useful. I explained how it works before, but you struggled with it.

The problem is you have struggled to come up with a viable solution. You have to think it through. Say I have Osc 1 panned hard left and Osc 2 panned hard right on one layer how would pan on a layer mixer work then?

Simple, you wouldn't pan that layer, you have already done the panning at osc level

What if Osc 1 is too loud in layer one but the rest are fine?

You're totally missing the point....I don't know how I can explain it more simply than I have... you're assuming all osc are used in each layer, or everything is panned. I'm talking about a a very simple way to balance layers without the need to use the MM, or menu diving....its a very simple concept.

[Teksonik]

That's the problem. It's too simple to be of any use and hence a waste of development time.

Again you're not saving any appreciable time if you still have to go to each layer's mixers and you're not bringing any new functionality. We can already adjust all the volumes and pans right now.

Development time would be better spent on adding something actually useful and that probably explains why there hasn't been a mixer added. Again a full featured mixer would save time and add at least some functionality with the ability to view all levels at a single glance and even then still not be high on the list of priorities.

I can't make it any easier to understand than that.....

[Kriminal]

That's the problem. It's too simple to be of any use and hence a waste of development time.

its simplicity is exactly why it is of use, i dont have to use 50 clicks going back and forth into the MM to adjust a layer volume to suit.

The sample OSC is too simple to be of any use, but thats there...

Again you're not saving any appreciable time if you still have to go to each layer's mixers and you're not bringing any new functionality. We can already adjust all the volumes and pans right now.

One click to reveal all 8 layer volume sliders....how can i currently do it that quickly? I'll wait....

I can't make it any easier to understand than that.....

all youve done is made it clear you have no idea what you are talking about. If you cant understand it, and have no interest in it, dont post here about it. Leave the discussion to ppl who do.

[Teksonik]

its simplicity is exactly why it is of use, i dont have to use 50 clicks going back and forth into the MM to adjust a layer volume to suit.

But you'll still have to do 50 mouse clicks to adjust the individual Oscs and Pans in each layer so it's a null sum. That's the point you're missing about a simple layer mixer.

The sample OSC is too simple to be of any use, but thats there...

I use the sample Osc all the time. Sure I'd rather have multi sampling but to say it is of no use would be myopic.

One click to reveal all 8 layer volume sliders....how can i currently do it that quickly? I'll wait.....

And then more clicks to get to the individual Oscs in each layer. You'd be saving so little time as to make it irrelevant.

all youve done is made it clear you have no idea what you are talking about. If you cant understand it, and have no interest in it, dont post here about it. Leave the discussion to ppl who do.

I'm afraid you have that backwards. It is you who clearly does not understanding the subject....in detail. You've had an idea that simply makes no sense to spend time on and you're going to cling to that idea no matter what so you're not "discussing" anything you're just repeating a halfway thought out idea over and over.
-------

Anyway on the subject of a full mixer this mock up uses faders from another synth but it shows that 40 faders can fit across the bottom section but it is a tight fit (there are actually 41 in the screenshot). One could argue that the Ring Mod and Noise Osc could be left out leaving the need for only 24 faders for all the Oscs and the faders could then be made larger. Mute/Solo stacked would be below.There would be room for a Pan knob as well. The trick would be to make the mixer scale with each skin size.

Then you'd have a access to all 24 osc (and perhaps Rm and Noise) at a single glance and that would save mouse clicks and also give you a visual overview of all the faders at once. Of course it's much easier to knock out a quick and dirty mock up than it is to actually implement any feature so have no idea how much time and work any mixer concept would require.

Mixer Mockup 2.png

But even then other than the visual overview what would we really gain? A few mouse clicks? You've already admitted we can build a Layer mixer in the MM and any layer fader is only a mouse click and a little cursor travel away. With any mixer would DUNE 3 sound any different? No, it wouldn't so for that reason I wouldn't put a mixer of any kind high on the priority list. If DUNE 3 was Synapse's only product then sure add every new feature and function.

But I think we can all agree with the new projects that Synapse has hinted at there is probably more important use of development time at this point.

How many people have actually asked for a mixer over the years? A half dozen? Yet there are thousands of presets available and countless more in personal collections for DUNE 3 so that tells us it's not a high priority feature. Again a mixer hasn't been added yet so that probably says a lot about its usefulness.

[Kriminal]

You're just white noise now, move on.

[Teksonik]

I'm not going anywhere Son. If all you hear is noise then you're not listening close enough.

I'll leave an example of a mixer found in another synth. There are 8 Oscs in that synth.

Mixer 2.png

No reason there couldn't be a similar one in DUNE 3 with 24 strips. Plenty of room although the fader throws will have to be shorter.

Mixer 3.png

Plenty of room left to add Layer Labels etc (scroll to the right to see how much spare room there is). A concept designed from the ground up to fit DUNE 3's GUI would obviously fit better. In other words it is technically possible to add a 24 track mixer on a bottom tab. Whether or not it's worth the effort depends on the individual I guess. It's not something I would oppose but it would not be high on my list of feature requests. A simple layer mixer wouldn't even be on my list.

[Kriminal]

you're not listening close enough.

Clearly you're not, he's asking for a layer mixer, that's it. Try reading before posting. If you want a diff mixer, ask somewhere else, as you clearly have no understanding of the request. Stop making everything about you. White noise, move on.