My wishlist :)

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My wishlist :)

Postby YamaNeko » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:26 pm

Well, I'm not registered user, tried the demo. Orion is great !!! But here is a wishlist:

1. Change generator for tracks.
2. Don't try to load/save VST preset in Orion folder. Better in that VST folder.
3. Separate pattern numbers for insert into playlist for each track.
4. Track layers for all generators.
5. Generator UI and piano roll in different windows.
6. If loop is disabled and song mode is enabled, stop playback after all song is played. Also - export all song to wave, not part defined by 'start' and 'length'
7. Use not fixed 64 patterns but dynamic lists instead. Draw new pattern in playlist. Change pattern length with mouse. Record MIDI to new pattern.
8. Unicode in song info
9. Bitrate select for MP3 export

This is all I remember. Maybe I'll add some later.

And it's not actually a wish, but what is the future of Orion ? All competitors are in unlucky state - Dreamstation II is going to be free, Project5 is closed. What are the plans for Orion ? Maybe some free version with restricted number of tracks (as MU.LAB does) ?
Last edited by YamaNeko on Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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My wishlist :)

Postby Eklectro » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:46 pm

1. Change generator for tracks.

Yep, but I think that templates will change many things in ORION's workflow (in ORION 8)

2. Don't try to load/save VST preset in Orion folder. Better in that VST folder.

I don't know how it can be configured (or not)

3. Separate pattern numbers for insert into playlist for each track.

???

4. Track layers for all generators.

In th eplaylist you can expand midi tracks to several ones. (answer the question ?)

5. Generator UI and piano roll in different windows.

Nice idea in deed, I always need to change btw the windows...

6. If loop is disabled and song mode is enabled, stop playback after all song is played. Also - export all song to wave, not part defined by 'start' and 'length'

Why not concerning the stop playling.
Start & length ? => thats define your song limits ! I don't understand how it could be better...

7. Use not fixed 64 patterns but dynamic lists instead.

Like using a midi list ? "create new, browse, delete..." : +1 :D

"Draw new pattern in playlist. "
+1


"Change pattern length with mouse."
+1

"Record MIDI to new pattern."

in pattern mode, when you record your midi flow, you can choose the pattern nummber right ? choose one new...


Concerning the future of ORION,
I think that ORION 8 (out soon...?) will go one large step over ORION 7 due to many new feathures. (take a look in the beta section)
I hope Rich (the developper) will continue this product and that it will be advertised enough on music forums.

ps: you are welcome here of course :D
Last edited by Eklectro on Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby YamaNeko » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:09 pm

2. Don't try to load/save VST preset in Orion folder. Better in that VST folder.

I don't know how it can be configured (or not)

Not configurable in current version. Only format (fxp/prs) configurable
3. Separate pattern numbers for insert into playlist for each track.

???

I'm arranging track, for example, drums. Put pattern, change it's number to, e.g., 10. Then I want to add osme bassline pattern. Last bass I added was pattern1. Now it tries to add pattern 10. Takes extra time to change...
4. Track layers for all generators.

In th eplaylist you can expand midi tracks to several ones. (answer the question ?)

Not for all. Try to do it for XR-909. Separate layers for kick, snares etc.
6. If loop is disabled and song mode is enabled, stop playback after all song is played. Also - export all song to wave, not part defined by 'start' and 'length'

Why not concerning the stop playling.
Start & length ? => thats define your song limits ! I don't understand how it could be better...

Song ends when last note is played and when all generator sound is off. Why do I need to set length ? I know where last pattern is :)
"Record MIDI to new pattern."

in pattern mode, when you record your midi flow, you can choose the pattern nummber right ? choose one new...

Recording in pattern mode loops pattern. I want to play some music - I don't know length. I want new pattern of length from pressing 'rec' to pressing 'stop'. Like in Sonar etc.
Concerning the future of ORION,
I think that ORION 8 (out soon...?) will go one large step over ORION 7 due to many new feathures. (take a look in the beta section)
I hope Rich (the developper) will continue this product and that it will be advertised enough on music forums.

Yes, I'm waiting for Orion 8. Demo for a first time :) It will be very good if Orion will live long !
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Postby Eklectro » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:31 pm

"3. Separate pattern numbers for insert into playlist for each track.

I'm arranging track, for example, drums. Put pattern, change it's number to, e.g., 10. Then I want to add osme bassline pattern. Last bass I added was pattern1. Now it tries to add pattern 10. Takes extra time to change..."

+1 :DD

"Not for all. Try to do it for XR-909. Separate layers for kick, snares etc."
I always use one diffrent drumrack/sampler for each sound. It makes a huge playlist and a huge mixer that's why I don't need this feathure.
(I'm not saying that what you're asking is useless)

"Song ends when last note is played and when all generator sound is off. Why do I need to set length ? I know where last pattern is"

Don't see so much interrest there cause I'm rendering not so often.
Btw It must not be a difficult option to implement...

"It will be very good if Orion will live long "
+1000 ;)
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Postby Kriminal » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:53 pm

YamaNeko wrote:Song ends when last note is played and when all generator sound is off. Why do I need to set length ? I know where last pattern is :)


you know, but Orion doesnt....thats a ridiculous request
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Postby Kriminal » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:54 pm

YamaNeko wrote:Recording in pattern mode loops pattern. I want to play some music - I don't know length. I want new pattern of length from pressing 'rec' to pressing 'stop'. Like in Sonar etc.


its already there in V8
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Postby Kriminal » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:55 pm

YamaNeko wrote:Change pattern length with mouse.



already there in V8
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Postby Kriminal » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:58 pm

YamaNeko wrote:Bitrate select for MP3 export


why anyone wants to stream to mp3 is beyond belief
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Postby Kriminal » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:00 pm

YamaNeko wrote: Track layers for all generators.

In th eplaylist you can expand midi tracks to several ones. (answer the question ?)

Not for all. Try to do it for XR-909. Separate layers for kick, snares etc.



the XR-909 has two version, STEREO and 10 Channel...use the 10 Channel
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Postby bones » Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:30 pm

The "10x" XR909 still only has one set of patterns in the Playlist but imagine what a PITA it would be if it had patterns per instrument internally!?! And why anyone woudl use that awful, limited thing is totally beyond me.

1. Change generator for tracks.
Stupid idea. What if the old instrument turns out to be better? It makes far more sense to A/B them side by side, so that you can be sure you pick the best one.
2. Don't try to load/save VST preset in Orion folder. Better in that VST folder.
The vast majority of VSTi do not have their own folder.
3. Separate pattern numbers for insert into playlist for each track.
I have no idea what this means.
4. Track layers for all generators.
Or this.
5. Generator UI and piano roll in different windows.
Why? You will almost always want the PR full-screen, so I don't see the point.
6. If loop is disabled and song mode is enabled, stop playback after all song is played. Also - export all song to wave, not part defined by 'start' and 'length'
What if you want/need a few extra bars at the end to catch all your reverb/delay tails? Orion cannot be expected to know when a 3rd party plugin stops making sound, so teh only way to make it work is for the user to tell Orion when to stop.
7. Use not fixed 64 patterns but dynamic lists instead.
Why? 64 is far more than anyone could ever possibly need and it means we can use a fixed set of keyboard shortcuts to get to them quickly.
Draw new pattern in playlist. Change pattern length with mouse. Record MIDI to new pattern.
All coming in the next version.
8. Unicode in song info
9. Bitrate select for MP3 export

Who cares? You need an audio editor anyway and that is the best place to be making MP3's. MP3 export in Orion is just for quick and dirty stuff.
YamaNeko wrote:I'm arranging track, for example, drums. Put pattern, change it's number to, e.g., 10. Then I want to add osme bassline pattern. Last bass I added was pattern1. Now it tries to add pattern 10. Takes extra time to change...

That's always going to happen, it's not worth worrying about. In fact, it's at least as likely that the drum pattern after "10" [which is invalid anyway] will be "1". What I tend to do is match pattern no.s across instruments so that pattern A3, for example, might be the verse pattern for every instrument. It saves me having to remember which patterns go with what. Where I might have variations, I simply skip a few patterns in the other instruments or put all the variations at the end, depending on how the arrangement was done.
Try to do it for XR-909. Separate layers for kick, snares etc.

That would make the Playlist an absolute nightmare.
Song ends when last note is played and when all generator sound is off. Why do I need to set length ? I know where last pattern is :)

But how is Orion to know? When I'm rendering songs I like to have a long tail so that I can get the right transition to the next album track. How is Orion supposed to know how that works?
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Postby epilogue » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:16 am

Kriminal wrote:
YamaNeko wrote:Bitrate select for MP3 export


why anyone wants to stream to mp3 is beyond belief


I use it regularly, actually. I dump an mp3 from Orion, stick it on a thumb drive and test listen whatever I'm working on in the car on my way to/from work. I do still wish I could render to FLAC though.
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Postby HYPNAGOGIA » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:34 am

YamaNeko wrote:2. Don't try to load/save VST preset in Orion folder. Better in that VST folder.

ALL presets go to one place: My Documents/Synapse Audio/Orion/Presets. Orion's things, generators and effects, have their designated folders. All 3rd party plugins, like VSTs have a subfolder called Plugins.
I think this makes for a better organization of your presets instead of chasing them in folders where you might have put your plugin. And with the possibility to have a plugin placed virtually ANYWHERE on your computer and just having the shortcut inside the vstplugins folder, it makes it for even greater headache.
5. Generator UI and piano roll in different windows.

Switching between the two is just a TAB away ;)
6. If loop is disabled and song mode is enabled, stop playback after all song is played. Also - export all song to wave, not part defined by 'start' and 'length'

Just like everyone else pointed out. Song is defined by the pattern placement in the Playlist. And as Bones said, sometimes there is a trail of sound that goes beyond the pattern, which would be completelly cut off if the song/rendering stop at the end of the pattern. Also, what happens if you want to put a small, 4 beats long for example, break somewhere in the middle of your song? Then the song would be streamed only to the half.
7. Use not fixed 64 patterns but dynamic lists instead. Draw new pattern in playlist. Change pattern length with mouse. Record MIDI to new pattern.

64 patterns is more than enough. Not to mention that one pattern can hold up to 10.000 steps, on a Orion's default tempo of 120bpm, that would give you close to 21 minutes for just one pattern. Doing a little rough math, 64 patterns would give you over 22 hours. Not enough?
And all that is possible with just one double click, punching in 10000 and a click on OK button or pressing the Enter key.
And it's not actually a wish, but what is the future of Orion ? All competitors are in unlucky state - Dreamstation II is going to be free, Project5 is closed. What are the plans for Orion ? Maybe some free version with restricted number of tracks (as MU.LAB does) ?

There was a lite version of Orion, called OrionPro, but was discontinued due to the limited development resources in favor of the Platinum version, which today you see as Orion. So, for $99 you do get a full package, and the support is one of a kind with the developers directly speaking to this community. You have to understand, it's 2 guys working on it, so they don't really have an easy time putting their passion into Orion.
The goal? The way I see it, the goal is not to make a host with a zillion stupid things of which 90% you would never need, but to make it as efficient and user-friendly as possible, making your work easy and pleasant.
Personally, I hope Orion won't be discontinued any time soon, and seeing Rich and Jouni's efforts in all this, I don't think it will.
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Postby Kriminal » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:09 pm

epilogue wrote:
Kriminal wrote:
YamaNeko wrote:Bitrate select for MP3 export


why anyone wants to stream to mp3 is beyond belief


I use it regularly, actually. I dump an mp3 from Orion, stick it on a thumb drive and test listen whatever I'm working on in the car on my way to/from work. I do still wish I could render to FLAC though.



does any portable device play FLAC?

i never convert to mp3 till its been mastered anyway (in SoundForge with the correct tools) and then its converted using dB Poweramp.
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Postby Dungeon Studio » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:42 pm

I thought I saw one of the editors being able to handle FLAC? WaveLab, Audacity...? I'm sure there must be something out there?

OP's fairly good at mastering, but to smack a 320kbs MP3 straight up from it? If one is going to take the time and know how to make something sound that good in Orion, a few extra seconds to polish and package it in a 2 track editor before making a MP3 shouldn't matter? For rough MP3's to give people jists of songs, and the assurance it won't get ripped off 'as is' - I think OP's fine in that regard.
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Postby epilogue » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:45 pm

Kriminal wrote:does any portable device play FLAC?

i never convert to mp3 till its been mastered anyway (in SoundForge with the correct tools) and then its converted using dB Poweramp.


Beats me - whether or not portable players support FLAC is irrelevant to my purpose, though. Rendering directly to FLAC would definitely save me a couple of steps. I archive every finished project as a FLAC render, since the .sfss I'm working on today aren't necessarily going to behave identically on future versions of Orion or on other computers. Wasp, for example, has come a long way, and some plugins like Albino and Wusikstation behave differently under myriad variables; different PPQs, whether or not MultiCore Engine or double-whatever blah-de-blah under Output settings, etc.
As it is, I render to .wav, convert that to FLAC in Goldwave, and then make my release mp3s from that lossless file. The FLAC then gets archived, since it's much less space-greedy than .wav.
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