Split pattern wishModerators: Christophe, Mark
54 posts
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Split pattern wishI am adding a small and humble idea for what in my opinion would be an excellent addition when working with patterns in song mode. We now have the ability to merge patterns. The opposite would also be wonderful to be able to do. I have had the opportunity to work with Energy XT lately, and have come to realise the extreme usefulness of a split function.
In other words: what I am talking about is being able to split larger patterns into smaller ones, perhaps while recording via my midi-keyboard and isolating the best part via a split... Or just as well splitting parts for pure convenience of rearranging the sequence in which I recorded the take in the main sequencer.
Split pattern wishhmmm...... just checked it, and your idea doesn't address what he wants to do, if I read it correctly. If I lasso a part of a pattern, it lassos the entire pattern. He wants to split that pattern into smaller ones.
Split pattern wishBeing able to select and cut patterns in the playlist like you can with audiotracks.....+1
Split pattern wishon a side note, I could see where this option could create a mess in terms of organization. If you split a pattern in two, then two more patterns need to be created. We already have merge patterns which creates another pattern, so it seems we would be creating even more this way, in fact twice as fast.
I do see how it would be useful, but my question would be.... is it worth it, when you can go into a pattern, lasso the steps you want to keep for the smaller pattern, and paste them into the next empty pattern? It IS a couple more steps, but it might keep things better organized? Not making a judgement call here, just writing down some thoughts. Last edited by Icaro on Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Split pattern wishYeah I agree on the question of how it would be implemented. This might go along with Rich's idea of "clips vs patterns" issue. Once a pattern is in the playlist and it gets split (like the scissor tool or selecting part of it like audio), no change is made to the actual pattern until there is a merge.
I think as long as we have plenty of room for empty patterns to fill, why not? Sometimes for me to make it easier to remember where I have variations of original clips, I keep the variation in the same number but the next letter (Original is A5, so variations are B5, C5, etc) Last edited by Shadx on Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Split pattern wishWe're talking about patterns in the playlist, not the notes in the pattern.
Split pattern wishI'm with Krim on this as well, and had to have 'split' patterns a few times over the years. Just go to A1, copy to A2, lasso the notes from bar 8 to 16 and DEL. Copy A1 to A3, lasso notes from bar 1 to 8 and DEL. But usually if I want to 'split' a pattern, it's for a break or a roll.
So I may want the notes to fade out or in via velocity somewhat, or maybe drag the last notes durations out for lingering sustain. You wouldn't get that ability spiliting patterns in Song mode.
Split pattern wishIt is nice to see that my initial argument sparked a conversation.
Of course I am aware of how to work the current system. This issue - my personal request / wish is beyond that. Would it be beneficial for Orion? Well, that is a topic which is open to debate. On to the issue in question (again): Icaro's great counter-argument about it possibly creating an organisational mess can be somewhat limited if the function would not generate two new patterns, one side of the split can remain in the currect bank slot, which results in only one new bank being filled up. Of course there can be a clutter anyway, but that is only if the slice function is not used in a clever way. Imho this organisational issue is best left as a responsibility for the user. One might want to travel the tried and true route, or choose to split. It all depends on what one want to accomplish. My main argument is that this would open up to a faster and more efficient workflow. Which is already a strong factor which speaks for Orion. Well. I don't think I'll convince everybody out there. But these are my thoughts. And as all thoughts, they are subject to change. Last edited by suecae_sounds on Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Split pattern wishIt's an alright idea. Many times when I make a song and say 'Why doesn't that roll sound good?' It's because the bass or something's still doing it's groove. And like you, I wish I could just lasso that last half of the pattern and cut it right there in Song. I'll test it with Mute first to see how it sounds killing the bass at a certain point. But even then it should be like 'da-da-daaaaaaa' while the drums go 'rat-a-tat-tat' So I'm going to have to modify that pattern anyways. So as it is currently, I copy A1 to A2, delete last few notes and sustain the note on the 3rd bar. Back to Song and just swap A1 for A2 at that part.
Your idea to 'split' a pattern would induce A1/A2 throughout the song. And if you wanted to modify A1 or A2 to sustain or fade out, you'd still have to copy that to A3, modify it, and reinsert it amongst all the A1/A2's. A lot more work if you ask me.
Split pattern wish
That's actually downright offensive! I tested it twice just to make sure. I used the Hip-hop style from the drum-rack it's 32 bars I highlight 16, but it highlights all 32.........
Split pattern wish
That's ridiculous. Who only uses a pattern once? If you change the original pattern then everywhere you have used it, it will be changed. The only way it could possibly work is to leave the original pattern intact and create two new ones.
Just to be clear, you are talking about the Playlist, right? Because in the Piano Roll it most assuredly will only select the notes you lasso. Anyway, I think it's a dumb and most unnecessary thing to waste time on. If it was really, really hard work to copy and paste, I might see some value in it but splitting a pattern from the Piano Roll is mostly trivial and takes no time at all. The one improvement that would come in handy woudl be the ability to cut/copy notes and paste them into the current cursor position. With that simple addition, there would be no need for a split pattern function at all. I think maybe the issue is that you should not be using the Playlist too much, it's not how Orion is designed to work. Dell G7 (Hexa-Core i7)|Cubase Pro 10||Analog Keys|Ultranova|MicroMonsta|Uno|Skulpt|Craft Synth 2.0|
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Split pattern wishYou're doing something wrong there Icaro. Should be able to position cursor at 1 above the top most note, drag down right until there's a 'box' around the notes from 1 to 16. Or from 16 to 32. And only those notes should go 'red' then, which you can either DEL, copy, adjust overall durations by stretching or squishing any highlighted note, transpose, etc.
Always top, drag down right. I think any other positioning or direction is going to wind up in trouble. Don't know what other setting would cause all notes to get highlighted like that? Agreed as well Bones. I'd be happy if it just a copied group of notes at the end of say 128 length would immediately paste at the start of A2 or whatever pattern. Usually where I went them anyways. Such a drag to make A2 128 length, drag all the notes to the top, make length 16 or 32 again. Last edited by Dungeon Studio on Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Split pattern wish
Blunt as always, eh Bones? In this context I was speaking about splitting newly recorded patterns, but I agree - this idea would simply not work in most cases and I withdraw my previous statement. I still would like to be able to split patterns though. No surprise there.
Split pattern wish
I'm not sure we're on the same page here. Forget Merge. I'm talking about ONE pattern, and splitting it, like this: It always selects the whole pattern, not just the selection like it would in the audiotrack. I have a problem with this:
That's not a problem, it's not that bad. Easy and doesn't take long, but between "just" that and just selecting part of the pattern you want to copy and moving it where you want, which is less of a hassle? Forget about making changes in the newly copied section of the pattern, just think of the less part of the hassle of cut/copy/paste the same way you can with audio as opposed to the Pattern mode route. Besides, it goes back to the consistency ethic, new or old user alike, there's a sense of "I can do this with audiotrack but not with midi track?" It's a standard feature you'd expect from any basic host. I know they're 2 completely different things technically, but the user deals with them in the playlist the same way, as blocks.
You could get that ability. After the original pattern split - you make the edit to that section, which would be the new pattern automatically made from the original. But making a new piece of pattern from an old one doesn't necessarily mean you want to edit it. In many cases you just want to repeat a couple bars from a certain section. You're an old schooler, think of it in terms of recording one instrument through the whole song in one take. Suppose I have a whole song ready to record, even though it's just the piano part. Song Mode: In one long take I start with the intro, go through the verse, break bridge, etc. That's one "bam" take. In pattern mode you'd have to pre-set you pattern lengths,take one hand off the keyboard to click on the next pattern for each section if you wanted to get it as close as possible as recording, etc...hoops to jump through and probly something will get in the way of it not working perfectly like recording the take in song mode. Now all I have to do if I want to make changes is cut pieces from the long take and rearrange, edit whatever. It's just working the other way around, for some it may be backwards, for some it may be forwards. We're just used to having to make patterns to make the whole. Let's have the flexibility to make patterns from the whole. Besides, doesn't this go along with what Rich was going on for a bit with the "maybe I should take patterns out/clips instead of patterns" topic?
Well said. I think it would be beneficial. It will allow new and old users to begin in a more traditional linear way using the song-mode as the basis if they choose to, which is a beneficial choice not just for the user. Instead of Song being a slave to Pattern, both work together and the slavery is abolished (didn't intend on making it melodramatic, but it works). Is it really going to be a mess? We already have new patterns being made with Merge. In beta we have new patterns made with newly recorded takes. It's been stated that we don't have to be limited to A-H/1-8 either, that it was mainly a gui space saving issue. As a side, Bones proposed a drop-down menu alternative; either way pattern limits shouldn't be a worry. A simple pattern association could be implemented visually. There's a few different associations that can be made from a text standpoint. Think of the dropdown menu we have when clicking on the lower bar of a pattern in the playlist; we get the pattern selection. In that window, you can show the association. Let's Say that A1 is the one long song take. I select part of that pattern to create a new pattern, A2. Since A2 came from A1 you can make A2 bold text, or put it in parentheses, add an asterisk, etc. You could color code, If A1 is orange, all patterns taken from A1 would also be orange. Another way as I said earlier is that sometimes my variations go into the same number but a different letter, so if A5 is the original pattern, "babies" go to B5, C5, etc. The worry of complications shouldn't keep the feature from being made. Mainly I like the idea of having the flexibility of both modes to work together more fluently instead of Song Mode being limited to the final phase, and pattern being central, and it might go along with a workflow idea Rich proposed some months ago. Last edited by Shadx on Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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