Improvements on the mixer?

[manducator]

Hello,

Since I can post wishlists here, I would like to add the following:

How about numbers above or below the mxier meter to show the dBFS? When I mix my songs I like to bring up the kick at - 12 dB and than add the other instruments. Now I have to guess, with the vu meter in Orion.

How about an 'overload light' when the volume has surpassed 0 dBFS, so we can adjust faders to prevent clipping?

One more suggestion; I would be nice if different volumesliders in the mixer could be selected at once for adjustment. Imagine that I want to bring up my drumkit by 1 dB; now I have to adjust every slider apart. I know, I could make a bus, but Orion only has 4 of them...

Btw, these are just suggestions,Orion is an nice product.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

How about numbers above or below the mxier meter to show the dBFS?

Mixer meters aren't true representation of dB values. I'm guessing you haven't noticed that there's difference between mixer meters and the one on the master channel (and up on the toolbar), even with a single instrument playing. The only true metering in Orion happens in just those two places - master and toolbar meters. I'm betting that making mixer VU meters show true values will bring countless of other calculations - all which will add (drastically) to the CPU consumption.

How about an 'overload light' when the volume has surpassed 0 dBFS, so we can adjust faders to prevent clipping?

Toolbar VU meters have that.

I know, I could make a bus, but Orion only has 4 of them...

8

[Christophe]

i have put a dfx RMS buddy in the master into my default song to see the peak and rms
maybe a solution will be in orion 8

[manducator]

I'm guessing you haven't noticed that there's difference between mixer meters and the one on the master channel (and up on the toolbar), even with a single instrument playing.

Right guess. The master channel and toolbar meter are more precise?

About the busses; you mean the 4 sends and the 4 busses together?

About the overload light; ok, so the toolbar meter has one. But it would be nice if it stayed on when it was once triggered. I'm used to the master channel meater from reaper; it keeps track of the highest peak and tells me how much it surpassed 0 db. So I know how much to lower all tracks/busses. (I never change the master level because lowering that won't change the clipping on my tracks/busses, and that's why I aks to be able to select different busses and be able to lower them together with one mouse movement.)

[HYPNAGOGIA]

The master channel and toolbar meter are more precise?

Yes, they are the true indicators of the real value, so if you notice your signal is peaking into the red on either of them, then you should take measures to lower the overall volume - the simplest way is to just lower the master volume.

About the busses; you mean the 4 sends and the 4 busses together?

No, I mean actual 8 separate buses that should be coming sometime by the end of the month, as one of the significant changes 7.62 version still has 4 buses, I'm afraid.

About the overload light; ok, so the toolbar meter has one. But it would be nice if it stayed on when it was once triggered. I'm used to the master channel meater from reaper; it keeps track of the highest peak and tells me how much it surpassed 0 db. So I know how much to lower all tracks/busses. (I never change the master level because lowering that won't change the clipping on my tracks/busses, and that's why I aks to be able to select different busses and be able to lower them together with one mouse movement.)

Master volume is one of the essential things to keep your signal in check. It's very easy to just lower the volume on the master channel and keep track by how much you've lowered it - the values are shown bottom left, in the statusbar. Don't worry about clipping on the mixer tracks and returns/buses, those practically have infinite headroom. Just keep your eye on the two meters (master and on toolbar) and you'll be fine.

[bones]

The important concept to understand is that it is impossible to overdrive a Mixer channel as they have infinite headroom. Therefore, the meters in each strip would be unable to give accurate and meaningful feedback, i.e. if they showed the full range of possible values, normal values would be so small they would not show up, so Rich has chosen an arbitrary range to help you with mixing. The only meter that matters is the one in the Main Toolbar and it is accurate. If you use any of my skins, it is also huge (905 pixels in Blue Steel).

[manducator]

Hey Hypna,

I'm learning from these posts, thanks. Didn't know about the values in the lower left corner.

Looking forward to 8 busses!

[bones]

What I like about the new bus arrangement is that I don't have to deal with more than the one or two I actually need. For once it is a win-win.

[Teksonik]

I've always wondered about Orion's Meters. At the moment I've got the Acoustic Grand loaded with a mixer level at -10db and the Master set at -10db and yet the main VU is clipping well above Odb (no sends no busses)...................Why?

[Mark]

The main mixer VU is just a guesstimate due to the relatively infinite headroom. The only VU that makes sense is that on the master channel, which doesn't have infinite headroom. It's best to think of the VU meters on the main mixer as activity indicators. The numbers are meaningless. I think Rich was actually bullied in to putting those on there by users iirc.

Edit: Having said that, after checking a pure sine tone from DUNE with signal analysers on the main and the master channels there does appear to be an exactly 6 dB difference. The difference is 6dB at all volumes and is exactly the same as that shown by Orion's VU's.

[Teksonik]

The numbers are meaningless. I think Rich was actually bullied in to putting those on there by users iirc.

Do you think it would be a good idea for the meters to be more than eye candy as they have been called in the past? Yes I realize we should mix with our ears but meters are still needed at some point. I'm not sure if an audio app's VU meters should be "meaningless" or just activity indicators. Could we carry on the conversation in the Beta forum?

[bones]

No, I don't. Read my post above for an explanation as to why. The only one that matters is the one on the Main Toolbar and AFAIK it is perfectly accurate.

[Teksonik]

No, I don't. Read my post above for an explanation as to why. The only one that matters is the one on the Main Toolbar and AFAIK it is perfectly accurate.

No you don't think it would be a good idea for the Mixer Strip Meters to be more than eye candy or just activity indicators ?

Now I have to guess, with the vu meter in Orion.

Not sure if guessing is the preferred method...........

[bones]

No, I don't. The reason hardware mixers have meters is to help you avoid over-driving channels. As that is not possible with Orion, there is no point in having accurate meters.

[Teksonik]

No, I don't. The reason hardware mixers have meters is to help you avoid over-driving channels. As that is not possible with Orion, there is no point in having accurate meters.

Yet accurate meters exist in other software audio apps.................

I'm not sure I understand the concept of infinite headroom. I see that Orion's mixer channels can only go to 0 db according to the status bar even at the top of their throw and you say they can't be over driven but load an Acoustic grand plugin and pull the mixer all the way up...That's not over driven? With the Master volume slider at -18db the main meter easily maxes out and since there are no calibration numbers on it I used T Rack's metering plugin to measure the volume at +10 db (depending on velocity of the key strike and note played). So with a main mixer strip set to 0db and the master set to -18db the overall volume is +10 db . Is this the way things should work?