Wishlist 2012 Discussion (Sticky)

[DivinEviL616]

Before I ascend to the summit of Mt. Soapbox here... I have a question/suggestion.

When I started to learn DAW basics (meaning the standard things that are required i.e. non-convenience features) I started to 'build' one in my head. It's a completely romanticized vision that would probably only be productive to me or someone baring my DNA and I've recently discovered that some people have come to call an identical vision REAPER; the irony of this is that I CANNOT break it's learning curve and therefore use it productively. Never happy with what you (think you) want I guess.

Anyway, I have a notebook full of DAW/VST/VSTi concepts I've been jotting down for the day I wake up and find that I'd been blessed with DSP Coding wisdom from upon high. Some of them are pretty standard things I didn't know were standard when I jotted them and others are pretty out there. I also have a feeling that many of them may already exist in other DAW's under different titles/descriptions. Such as Universal Piano Roll where you can jump from generator to generator without actually opening and closing the windows. My vision has a ton of convenience options and that vision is narrowed by the fact that its purpose was limited to only one plugin and the use of multiple instances of it. However I have a lot of them, yeah most will probably end up being reveled as redundant.

So here is my suggestion.

I can take this notebook and go through them picking and choosing based on Orion and my knowledge of it so far and we take them put them under the microscope and figure out if they are lead or gold. Then just to be sure apply a little alchemy to the lead and see if we can't turn it into gold... Anyone else think this could be fun? I know it would finally purge me of those nagging 'possibilities' as well as teach me more about Orion in the process.

I love Orion for the same logic behind why I also love Reason. Redundancy is the foe! I will admit that I am like a lot of people in this world today - addicted to instant gratification, but I'm also a lot the people humans were before we devolved into our Plastic-Microwave-Drive Thru McSociety; I thrive on learning. There is a reason why Propellerhead didn't include a PCF effect (until the recent Aligator anyway but there's a logic behind its existence too - combinating something like it is an exorcize in near futility and you'd be better off working on the theory of Everything. I know because I built such a combinator for Reason 5 and following all the wires and chains through all the scrolling and stacked modules leads you towards a mental breakdown) like the one found in ReBirth - because the ingredients are right there in the kitchen you just have to do a little combinatoring to whip it up...you know like they did back in the day when studio time was about 65 dollars an hour plus a premium if you wanted an engineer to build those chains for you.

So is the spirit of my suggestions and what I'm asking to be done to them. Also it could be considered that we could take the suggestion that were made about Orion on other forums and discuss them here as well and apply a bit of preventive medicine to them before they start popping up over and over again and we find ourselves treating symptoms instead of the cause. The resulting information could have untold future benefits in other areas such as 'The Initiative to Reduce Forum Drama Directly Associated With the Eternal Digital Audio Workstation Debate'

And before we try it; put this post under the same Anti-Redundancy microscope and let me know if the process works.

PS:
Richard should include a Mayan Calendar countdown in the transport so we know how much time we have left to finish a song before the world ends... j/k (seriously that was a joke)

*edit*
just fixing some wording trying to make it easier to follow

[Teksonik]

I read your entire post but I'm not sure what you're trying to say........

Anyway brilliant idea Mark to make this discussion thread separate and leave the other clean just for suggestions....well done......

I'm interested to see what other user's wishes will be.....

[DivinEviL616]

I read your entire post but I'm not sure what you're trying to say........

Anyway brilliant idea Mark to make this discussion thread separate and leave the other clean just for suggestions....well done......

I'm interested to see what other user's wishes will be.....

Yeah, I sort of went off on that one.

Basically I was saying that since I've been making music with a computer I've been collecting, in a notebook, these 'feature' ideas I'd like to have in my dream DAW. I was suggesting that I go through them all and prepare a list of them in reference to Orion (not all of them would suit Orion, and some are already present) and the entire community could go through it addressing each one in interrogation style narrowing it down to only the useful ones. Then I figured what the hell if we're going this far why not just start taking ideas from everywhere even other forums and put those suggestions through the same process. I figured it would help prevent things like the recent KVR fiasco if we could simply put up a link to an existing discussion instead of rehashing it over and over again.

[bones]

When I started to learn DAW basics (meaning the standard things that are required i.e. non-convenience features) I started to 'build' one in my head.

So what you are saying is that you came up with an idea for something that, by your own admission, you knew absolutely nothing about. Despite that, you now expect us to make the effort to hear you out?

I've recently discovered that some people have come to call an identical vision REAPER; the irony of this is that I CANNOT break it's learning curve and therefore use it productively. Never happy with what you (think you) want I guess.

i.e. Your idea is a bad one but it could also be wildly popular amongst sheeple who also have no idea what they are doing.

[DivinEviL616]

When I started to learn DAW basics (meaning the standard things that are required i.e. non-convenience features) I started to 'build' one in my head.

So what you are saying is that you came up with an idea for something that, by your own admission, you knew absolutely nothing about.

Yes. When I discovered the concept of digital recording via PC or Desktop and started to learn more about the process I started to imagine something very akin to what is commonly referred to as a DAW and thus began 'building' one inside my mind. Something purely hypothetical.

Much like a person learning mathematics and only being taught the process of addition could easily extrapolate that there could possibly be another form of math called subtraction without the teacher promoting an assumption towards the concept. The student has been putting different numbers together into one so there must be a lesson about taking one from another. The student has come with idea for something he was completely ignorant and oblivious.

Despite that, you now expect us to make the effort to hear you out?

No, I was asking if it was something everyone would be interested in. I apologize if my enthusiasm was misconstrued as 'expectation' or entitlement.

I've recently discovered that some people have come to call an identical vision REAPER; the irony of this is that I CANNOT break it's learning curve and therefore use it productively. Never happy with what you (think you) want I guess.

i.e. Your idea is a bad one but it could also be wildly popular amongst sheeple who also have no idea what they are doing.

The truth is actually subjective to relativity, but I will say that I am tending to agree with you after the fact.

[bones]

Much like a person learning mathematics and only being taught the process of addition could easily extrapolate that there could possibly be another form of math called subtraction without the teacher promoting an assumption towards the concept.

Not the same thing. Were you a musician before you came upon digital music creation (a DAW is a computer set-up, not the software running on it)? If not, you would lack the underlying knowledge to form any valid opinions. i.e. this stuff doesn't exist in a vacuum, it is a development/extrapolation of an ancient artform and it needs to conform to certain well established modus operandi. In my case, I had been making purely electronic music for 17 or 18 years before I ever thought to use my computer to do it.

[DivinEviL616]

Not the same thing.

Yes it is... and we are saying the same thing. I'll show you.

Were you a musician before you came upon digital music creation ? If not, you would lack the underlying knowledge to form any valid opinions. i.e. this stuff doesn't exist in a vacuum, it is a development/extrapolation of an ancient artform and it needs to conform to certain well established modus operandi. In my case, I had been making purely electronic music for 17 or 18 years before I ever thought to use my computer to do it.

Yes, I have been a musician for about 17 years now. I started playing bass but picked up the guitar and a Boss DR-550 when I was about 16 because I was sick of having 'creative differences' with every other musician in that small Texas town. I'd always had an inclination towards electronic music and unconventional creation methods. I used to 'remix' my favorite songs with nothing more that a dual cassette recorder and the pause button. A lot of sounded like the sounds coming out of Stutter Edit but mostly I was simply extending the songs by identifying the loops and repeating them.

I was never blessed with money and what I had I had to scrounge up i.e. everything was second hand or rigged up to function in a desired manor. A children's Karaoke machine is a perfect description of what I mean by rigged up. It had a dual cassette deck one to record and one for play back. It had two mono inputs for mics. I simply plugged the Boss into one of them and a mic on my bass amp push record and I have two instruments recorded then I take the tape with the Drum and Bass and overdub the guitar by simply playing along to the first tape while recording both together in another tape. The loss of sound quality prevented me for going any further, but I got some shit done.

Shortly after this, a friend was showing me this ancient computer his dad had restored and the basic midi synthesizer that was on it. Immediately I wanted to run it through some effects and see what we could get. It would eventually dawn on me that I wouldn't have to treat it like a traditional instrument and instead use other internal functions to capture my recordings and possibly edit and maybe arrange various pieces into a full composition...etc

From there I frequently entertained the concept of using a computer to create music. I lived in the middle of nowhere's asshole so I was largely unaware of the reality in the world taking shape outside of that bubble.

From there I evolved into using ReBirth in tandem with Soundforge 4.0 and ACID Pro 3.0. I modded the rebirth to include guitar samples I'd recorded into the computer in place of the 808 samples. It was pretty interesting stuff.

Beyond that my weekends from about age 15 to till I was 22 and moved to Minnesota were consumed with being a roadie or guitar tech for my uncle's top 40 bar band setting up his rig and eventually taking on the duties of the sound system. Nothing special they played off stage with minimal monitoring but you'd never know the difference! lol

So while I do not have a 'career' to speak of, I do have a very extensive history and background in music. Along with my intrigue of computer systems it's only natural that I could have attempted to combine them at some point.

In conclusion, no my suggestions weren't left for me under my guitar case by the music fairy. I am just like the student in my analogy who had to learn addition before conceiving of subtraction. The only problem here is that before someone teaches this kid how to subtract he's probably going to call it something like 'take aways' because, no, he wouldn't know what people before him had named the process nor would it be wise to assume that he could actually display this process of 'take aways' to anyone because his assumption was built on the understanding of addition to mean that two or more become one and could only spark the reverse thought of one can then become two or more. The name he applies to his concept doesn't make it any more or less wrong or right; it simply means that he will be more apt to learn subtraction when the teacher brings the lesson to class.

However...if you consider that minus and subtraction both mean the removal of something from another - by taking it away - then you'll understand the child was in fact not an idiot for calling it 'take aways'. Simply ignorant of terminology and, yes, perhaps the minutia of methodology, but he was still right.

one last thing

(a DAW is a computer set-up, not the software running on it)

I wish everyone else could figure that out too. I assume you believed I didn't possess this wisdom, which is understandable considering the vast majority of the people one deals with in regards to this career/hobby think the software is the be all end all. Personally I decided it wasn't worth it to argue the point with anyone (this is actually the first time I've discussed this with ANYONE online) and just call it a DAW. The breakdown happens because most don't have much if anything in the way of hardware to use in making their music; however I simply carried over the term from i.e 'Korg Trinity Workstation' and other various tools like the grooveboxs and samplers Roland was pimping out around that time in my life. They were digital workstations, for the production and performance of audio creations.

I am really envious of your history with electronic instruments going back that far; I find a certain romance in the way things were done in those days. Watching say Rodger Waters fiddle with a gigantor modular set up to produce the synth work on 'Wish You Were Here' was the day I realized just how much I'd missed out on given my social-economic status. The chaining of things together the methodical mapping through out the whole works. It's the same thing that pushed my uncle to upgrade from a simple self contained amp head to a full rack system. I was setting it up and could teach him to use it so why not? lol

Anyway, I hope I cleared things up for you a little bit. My posts are long and I often use very obscure analogies with some things explained in too much detail and others are left to the reader to decipher.

Josh

[Teksonik]

(a DAW is a computer set-up, not the software running on it)?

Without the proper Software your computer setup can make no more music than a brick. a DAW is a combination of hardware designed to record and playback sound and the software designed to record, manipulate, playback and (optionally)generate sound... The best soundcard in the world will only sit there idle without the software to tell it what to do just as the best software program in the world can do nothing without the proper hardware to run it on.....a DAW is the combination of the two....

I wish everyone else could figure that out too.

They'd be wrong if they did.........

[DivinEviL616]

Without the proper Software your computer setup can make no more music than a brick. a DAW is a combination of hardware designed to record and playback sound and the software designed to record, manipulate, playback and (optionally)generate sound... The best soundcard in the world will only sit there idle without the software to tell it what to do just as the best software program in the world can do nothing without the proper hardware to run it on.....a DAW is the combination of the two....

Thank you for expounding on the phrase 'Computer Set-up' as it was implied... because simply having those components collected together in the same general location doesn't make a DAW either - they must be..........................not yet.......................................Set Up! ...or, as you've said, they just sort of lay there like bricks.

Now it should be MUCH easier for people to understand what was being discussed.


*PS*
I am just being an ass at this point; that was meant to be funny.

[DivinEviL616]

getting MCU support for controlling the mixer with some thing like the cheap Korg NanoKontrol2 would be a great add on!

I have no problem using my nanoKontrol2, I haven't tried to map the transport yet but I have no problems assigning the knobs and sliders wherever I need. Perhaps use Kontrol Editor and change the scene?

[michl]

getting MCU support for controlling the mixer with some thing like the cheap Korg NanoKontrol2 would be a great add on!

I have no problem using my nanoKontrol2, I haven't tried to map the transport yet but I have no problems assigning the knobs and sliders wherever I need. Perhaps use Kontrol Editor and change the scene?

it's more convenient to have mcu support than mapping ccs all over the place ( and cc1 is allways mapped to mod wheel !!! )

[DivinEviL616]

getting MCU support for controlling the mixer with some thing like the cheap Korg NanoKontrol2 would be a great add on!

I have no problem using my nanoKontrol2, I haven't tried to map the transport yet but I have no problems assigning the knobs and sliders wherever I need. Perhaps use Kontrol Editor and change the scene?

the title of this thread is "wishes only" - so why argue here?
it's more convenient to have mcu support than mapping ccs all over the place ( and cc1 is allways mapped to mod wheel !!! )

My apologies, I figured when you stated 'getting MCU support for controlling the mixer' that you didn't know it could control the mixer period. I was just trying to point out that you could still control the mixer using that particular device... I can't really see how that can be construed as an argument, honestly.

[mprojekt]

Ok this a bit weird but here we go an option of turning your playlist input into actual sheet music format I am more a writer than a player, So your bass sequence would print under heading bass for example. Had a Yamaha CX5M and the piano role version was in actual sheet music format.

[Kriminal]

i did ask for this years ago, notation support, tho not for me, i dont read music, not sure many 'electronic' musician do these days.

might be a lot of work for a small reward

octaMED used to do way back on the old Amiga...

[mprojekt]

i did ask for this years ago, notation support, tho not for me, i dont read music, not sure many 'electronic' musician do these days.

might be a lot of work for a small reward

octaMED used to do way back on the old Amiga...

Well i can sort of read music but some fan would like to play some of my songs but they read music dont have a DAW or any sequencers