Hi Folks
New here, so firstly, hello to all!
Been using Dune 2.0 for a while. Just upgraded to Dune 2.2.
Am attempting remote patch selection from Kurzweil keyboard for sequencing.
First issue:
The patch change messages respond from 00-67, but then I get a message about demo patches.
I am a fully registered user! So this is new on me.
Second issue:
How do I address > 127 patches in Dune - Bank Change messages? And are they on CC#00 or CC#32?
Just to add, I am using the 64bit Windows on Win7x64 version.
Dune reports Dune 2.2 *** FULL *** in about.
Demo patches run 00-67
Other patches are in a Factory patches.
Downloaded version came from the user area, the dual 32/64bit install.
thanks in advance,
S9DD
Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!Moderators: Christophe, Mark
12 posts
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Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!this is not a problem, the 67 th patch is called ---DEMO NOTE --- and the description explains that the full version has more than 400 patches
if you load a bank with more than 67 you will be able to select them all i am testing with 120 patch from Vintage synth pads bank Yamaha CS-30, Roland SH-1, Roland MKS70, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, Yamaha FS1R, Oberheim Matrix 1000, Novation Remote 37SL, Korg Legacy, Alesis M1Active 520, Novation Launchpad Pro, Push2, Intel i7-7700HQ
Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!i tested the bank change too and it's working fine with keyboard novation remote 37 SL
Yamaha CS-30, Roland SH-1, Roland MKS70, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, Yamaha FS1R, Oberheim Matrix 1000, Novation Remote 37SL, Korg Legacy, Alesis M1Active 520, Novation Launchpad Pro, Push2, Intel i7-7700HQ
Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!
Click on the DUNE logo and see what it says. If it says "DEMO", you need to remove all versions and reinstall. If it reads proper version with your key, then it's definitely a bug. SoundCloud ::: Facebook
Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!When you say tested... What format are you using? Bank CC#00+PatchCh, or Bank CC#32+PatchCh, or PatchCh#1+PatchCh#2 format?
I am using MIDI-OX to demonstrate the incoming data, and Kurzweil sends CC#32 then PatchCh - but I cannot escape the 00-67 range in Dune. The logo in Dune 2.2 reveals Dune 2.2 *** FULL *** , so I do not think it to be in demo mode - although there is no serial no displayed. Is that an issue? There are Demo patches and Factory patches, within Factory patches there is a list of patch types. I am hosting in EnsemblePro5 latest version. I guess this could be filtering the Bank message out. I have the MIDI input set to the Device and a Single MIDI channel for the Dune plugin. Turning this around - is it possible to address patches as Bank + Patch in Dune? And how are they mapped?
Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!
DUNE 2 no longer deals with .fxb banks but instead places .fxp patches in folders. I just created a folder with 128 INIT patches and D2 responded to the entire 128 patch changes (although that controller sends 0-127 and DUNE responds to 1-128 so it's always off a number). I'm not sure how D2 will respond to Bank changes now. Perhaps it considers each folder a "bank" and a Bank Change command will simply select the next folder in the list but I doubt it because folders can have sub folders. I'm out of time this morning but I'll see if I can test Bank Change commands when I get home this afternoon.............
Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!
DUNE 2 on patch change navigates through the amount of the patches in the soundbank only. 67 patches are in the demo directory, so if you send program change number above 67th, it just stays on the last one patch in the soundbank (in this case it is just "demo note" patch).
Yes. DUNE 2 should react only on Bank LSB change and browse through directories.
Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!
yes, it's what i have seen, so you will browse through sub folder ... Yamaha CS-30, Roland SH-1, Roland MKS70, Focusrite Scarlett 18i6, Yamaha FS1R, Oberheim Matrix 1000, Novation Remote 37SL, Korg Legacy, Alesis M1Active 520, Novation Launchpad Pro, Push2, Intel i7-7700HQ
Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!This has turned into something of an adventure, as many manufacturers seem to have issues with Bank and Patch.
Dune responds identically for Bank#00 and Bank#01 - I assume LSB 0x00 has no meaning, which seems a little odd - but it starts to show new bank when sending Bank#2 and above. This is 32bit version hosted in Vienna Ensemble Pro 32. The 64bit version operates the same way. Amazing how many synths and plugins here have TOTALLY different ideas about how this should work. As far as I am concerned and the MIDI spec, patch changes can be sent PCH, LSB+PCH or MSB+LSB+PCH. Some devices support PCH+PCH. Ableton Live supports these combinations. When a device has thousands of sounds, the potential to address 128x128x128 patches should appeal, so dodging implementing MSB+LSB by design seems flawed. Many issues arise from trying to map banks to 128 slots, but this is really a non-issue. Great if the bank has more than 128 patches!! The plugin could offer an automatic way to allocate each new soundbank on a LSB boundary, dropping any overage into the adjacent and ascending LSB. So, for example, importing a "soundbank" of 160 patches would put patches 0-127 in the first totally empty LSB, eg. LSB #10, and then drop patches 128-159 in LSB #11, keeping them together and scrollable remotely. Any new soundbank after that would begin on a fresh LSB boundary, so the next new soundbank would appear at LSB #12 in the example. Simple enough. Even MSB boundaries could be used for manufacturers. So importing from supplier A would be MSB #01, and supplier B MSB #02. Personally, I'd just want the next LSB boundary, but each to their own. What is really unhelpful is the simple MIDI learn for Inc and Dec on a browser. Yes, OK, useful when you are working on a PC - but hell if you are sequencing from a remote keyboard and need to know the PRECISE BANK and PATCH number for THAT sound!!
Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!DUNE 2 takes care of every subdir in the soundbanks directory, so that's why at first glance some numbers don't change the banks. For example DUNE 2 uses the values from 00 to 04 with the following structure:
Soundbanks\A Soundbanks\B\1 Soundbanks\B\2 Soundbanks\C Respectively it is: 00 - Soundbanks\A 01 - Soundbanks\B (this is treated as bank too) 02 - Soundbanks\B\1 03 - Soundbanks\B\2 04 - Soundbanks\C Some users may want to place the patches in "Soundbanks\B" as well. In hardwares the memory was fixed and divided into banks and patches, so the whole navigation is clear it it just works. With software the size is simply undefined and dynamic and you can create as many banks and patches as you want. Furthermore if you create some project and set bank change messages, then if you add new soundbanks etc. - the project may not find the same soundbanks at same number, so:
in theory this would work, however in practice very quickly the boundary would be exceeded and after a few rotations the full mish-mash would come, and it would be really hard to measure where the excact bank is, or it should be. As long as we work with the fixed amount of bank and patches, it all is extremely easy, otherwise it is hard to say how it should work and that's why every manufacturer creates some own solution, better or worse, and we were trying to make the best possible for the most of our users.
Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!Could you please explain the subdirectories with matching MSB+LSB+PCH examples?
Sorry, but I am not getting it. Are you saying MSB 0 + LSB 0 + PCH 0 = Soundbank A patch 0 MSB 0 + LSB 1 + PCH 0 = Soundbank B patch 0 MSB 0 + LSB 2 + PCH 0 = Soundbank B subfolder 1 patch 0 Also I disagree about the "mish mash"! You list your soundbanks on screen, right click, see which LSB has been assigned to it, edit it if you want to. A bank that bleeds into the next LSB has patch 127 populated, so it is easy to list them. Essentially you look for "breaks" in continuous patch lists. It is not hard at all. Mapping stored patches to incoming patch messages is a common discipline in hardware devices going back, and only requires a map. If the physical device only has 4096 slots, there will come a limit. But mapping MSB+LSB+PCH to those slots is just a map. If you folks can cope with filtering algorithms in DSPs, a MIDI patch map cannot be so hard, can it?!!
Re: Upgraded to 2.2 and patch issues!A minor point.
There should be a toggle in VSTs... [ ] Consumer (patches numbered 1-128] [ ] Professional (patches numbered 0-127] [ ] Guru (patches in 0x00 format) Sleep well!
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