Detuning and pitch in DUNE 2

[Yorrrrrr]

Today I noticed something. If I have OSC 1 and 2 active and I try to detune one of them with the FINE knob by +1 cent (up to +3), I don't hear (or see in an spectrogram) any phasing effect or movement. However, in Sylenth1, Serum and other synths (for comparison), it is very noticeable right away even with only +1 cent of detuning.

EDIT: +1 cent in Sylenth1 produces an effect similar to +16-17 in DUNE 2. Weird.

Why is that? Is there something wrong with the detuning in DUNE 2? Someone please enlighten me.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Why does anything has to be wrong with it? Maybe its processing just works differently than others.

[Teksonik]

Detuning works the same in DUNE 2 as it does in Sylenth 1 here.

Sylenth seems to be a little more sensitive but not much........or to be more precise DUNE2 FINE tuning seems a bit more fine than Sylenth. Yes One Cent is One Cent but the way the Osc's interact is different.

Nothing wrong with either one. The point is you can detune either one way past anything useful so I wouldn't worry about what number shows up in the readouts........

[Yorrrrrr]

OK, that's a good answer Teksonik. I am still learning about synthesis and I thought this should be more or less the same on every synth. Indeed, the DUNE 2 detuning seem a little bit finer then.

[Yorrrrrr]

Related to this...using just one oscillator...why if I increase 100 cents with the FINE knob (1 semitone up) sounds different than if I set Const/+100/Osc 1 Fine in the mod matrix? Sounds like 4 semitones up (+400 cents).

The manual for DUNE 2 says in the mod destination description for Osc Fine (page 64) that +100 should be 1 full semitone up, not 4 semitones. As it is right now, 1 semitone would be +25 Osc Fine. No big deal though..just that the manual is innacurate. Osc Fine destination has a range of 4 semitones (same as Pitch Fine). Maybe it is like that by design?

[Chrispy]

Hi,

I was trying to recreate a patch from another synth (Albino) which is a simple detuned saw and couldn't work out why I couldn't get the same sound with Dune 2. It turns out the fine tuning was the reason. It does indeed seem that the cent scale on the Fine knob gives very little movement in the low ranges (0..50) and then a lot of movement at the higher scales. Then when you hit 100 cent that is the same as 100 cent in Albino. I'm not sure if Cent scaling is supposed to follow a standard or is up to the interpretation of each synth designer, although I've just tried quite a number against Albino and all seem to be the same except Dune.

You're also right that it's different when you use the Mod Matrix and add a constant to the Osc Fine parameter. Firstly it *is* then following the scaling of other synths like Albino, but it's 4 times the amount of cents you'd expect (100 cents in Albino = 25 in the mod matrix)

Is this by design or is it actually a bug (which I realise would be difficult to change now because all patches would sound different)? Thanks

I just tried the same exercise in Dune (v1) and the Fine knob there doesn't have the scaling "issue" (i.e. small numbers giving little movement and large numbers big movement) but the number of cents is twice what other synths report (Albino 10 cents = Dune 1's 20 cents).

Just my 2 cents (sorry, couldn't resist
Thanks.

[Chrispy]

I had a spare half hour on my hands this evening, so I tried a little experiment using a sine wave detuned by 35 cents and then by 100 cents in a variety of synths, and matching them on a spectrum analyser.

All of the synths I tried (see below) gave identical results, with the exception of Dune, which is the only one that exhibits this behaviour across the scale between 0 and 100 cents.

Here are the VSTi instruments I tried:

Linplug/Rob Papen Albino
Xfer Serum
Melda MPowerSynth
Rob Papen Blue 2
U-he Zebra
Camel Audio Alchemy
Tone2 Electra2
NI Massive
fxPansion Strobe
Spectrasonics Omnisphere
Lennar Digital Sylenth1
Ableton Live Analog

[Yorrrrrr]

I am glad that someone else besides me noticed this. Hopefully someone from the Synapse staff reads this.

[Teksonik]

I still don't get the fixation with numbers. Certainly you detune by ear ? Anyway only Rich or Marcin can tell if it's by design or indeed a bug but like you said changing it now would probably not be possible..........

[Yorrrrrr]

It's not fixation with numbers. I'm just looking for an explanation of WHY 1 cent in DUNE 2 is different than in the rest of synths in existence. Musically, a cent is a cent, 1/100th of a musical semitone, so 1 cent applied here or there shouldn't make a difference and should produce the same results in any synth. Or am I wrong? If I am, please enlighten me, maybe I'm not grasping the concept.

[Teksonik]

You're not wrong you're just over thinking it....doesn't matter what number the readout shows it's what the patch sounds like that matters. You program with your ears not a calculator unless perhaps you're doing FM or Additive for example.

It's possible the readout of the Fine Knob is not accurate. I know there are "wavetables" in between the numbers on the WT readout. Try it with "IW Additive 02" for example. Move the position knob ever so slightly and you'll see the WT display and the sound itself changes before the numerical display changes from 01 to 02. It's possible the fine knob is doing the same thing. The resolution of the Knob is finer than the display can reflect. I'm not saying that's what is happening only Rich and Marcin cay say for sure but what I am saying is don't worry about it.....just program a patch that sounds good to your ears.

[Mark]

Well, it does matter if something labelled as a cent isn't a cent, IMHO.

Just my 2cts

[Teksonik]

Well, it does matter if something labelled as a cent isn't a cent, IMHO.

Just my 2cts

Sorry somebody already beat you to it..............

Just my 2 cents (sorry, couldn't resist
Thanks.

---------------------
Cent, Dollar, Pound, who cares...........

[Mark]

Pah!

[Teksonik]

EDIT: Never mind the rambling lunacy in the first part of this post.....I just went in to the studio and what was happening before is not happening now so............

But I wonder if there is a plugin that can measure what values DUNE 2's detune knob is actually returning. That's something in Mark's field of expertise....(hint hint).......