Hello,
My question is in subject: for now, they're two algorithms about FM synthesis in DUNE 2.
Q1/ Is it possible to create custom FM algorithms around A/B/C operators? some synths (like free "Dexed") can do this easily.
Q2/ only if yes: are they existing tool(s) and/or tutorials?
Q3/ Is it useful (or useless) to create another FM algorithms in DUNE 2 synth?
Of course, I understand DUNE 2 isn't a pure FM synthesizer (such NI FM8, Tone2 Nemesis or Dexed).
Thanks in advance for explanations.
DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?Moderators: Christophe, Mark
23 posts
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Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?
I don't think Dexed can create "custom" algorithms it just has the 32 included in the original DX7. Unless I'm missing something or you mean by altering the open source code in which case it couldn't be done "easily". But anyway I believe Mark has devised a way to expand DUNE 2's FM capabilities but I'll let him explain his method since he is many orders of magnitude smarter than I am.......... Expanding DUNE to 6 Operators and including custom algos would certainly expand it's range of sound but I don't know if that's possible or practical from a coding standpoint.
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?Many thanks for your explanations, Teksonik, you're right about Dexed and it's 32 algos from Yamaha DX-7.
Having more FM operators/algos in future DUNE 2 releases will be a great idea - like "Sine" and "inverted Saw" in VA OSCs but it's another debate. DUNE 2 remains my favorite synth, however! Thanks so much!
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?Nothing to thank me for............
Let's wait for Mark to comment on his work with D2's FM engine. I think he will give you a lot of ideas........
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?Sorry, only just seen this. I'll post something tomorrow. Bedtime for me
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?Don't worry, Mark, it was only a simple question (and not a feature request, anyway), also it was the time for bed for us in Europe (very late for me about previous posts, at Paris) I agree, sometimes bedtime is necessary
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?Hi
You can do simple FM by modulating the osc with LFO at audio rate and use depth control for FM amt. This works a bit like the FM in Dune. I like it. Peace luv and aciiid. ---=u f o=--- /Radiation Mutant / Snee-Nee-Iq
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?
Thanks ufo!
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?So one way you can do this is to use the output of an oscillator to audio-rate modulate the FM amount(s) of another oscillator. Now how close this is to what happens IRL, I don't know, but it does allow you to do more complicated FM patches. So, for instance, if you had Osc1+2 set to FM mode and Osc3 as a sine wave (doesn't have to be), by chaining Osc3 to modulate Osc2 FM Amt A and Osc2 set to modulate Osc1 Amt A, you have what would be close to a 7-operator FM chain. Of course you can modulate other FM parameters instead e.g. Amts B and/or C. This way you can go quite far from what you can do with Yamaha FM Be sure to use your envelopes, MSEGs, LFOs to modulate the amount of oscillator modulation
The other way, which is true to Yamaha style FM is to have 1 oscillator containing my sine phase change wavetable, which I uploaded somewhere. This is the same sine wave in 64 slots of the wavetable, but with linearly increasing phase offsets. Set up oscillator modulation again, but this time modulate wavetable position. Set osc1 and 2 to the same sine phase change wavetable and osc3 to sine and you basically have the same as a single FM module in DUNE2. So what I hear you say? Well, we've moved in to the realm of wavetables. That phase changing wavetable doesn't have to be a sine wave. It can be any wave you want! For instance, I have phase changing wavetables that correspond to each of the different waveshapes of the TX81z and OPL3 FM synths. I have wavetables that apply this phase changing approach to waveforms that have probably never been FM'd ever Finally, we can move away from Yamaha style phase modulation when we replace the sine phase change wavetable with another wavetable with completely different waves in each slot, e.g., the default wavetable: sine->saw->square. Modulating that will basically allow you to do more general waveshaping. Try to set Osc1 to default wavetable in the mid position and osc2 as a sawttooth wave set to modulate osc1 wt position with +50. Set osc reset to on for both. Now try messing with the osc2 init phase to see what different waveshapes you get. Also try changing wt position and modulation amt for osc1. Now think about how you could do a chain of osc3->osc2->osc1. Loads of possibilities Here are some of the waveshapes possible from the default wavetable when modulated with a sawtooth and changing init phase from 0 through 16 steps of a full cycle.: You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?Note with the last general waveshaping method, some wavetables sound really bad and not in a good way
The key is to experiment with different wavetables, modulation sources, amounts and phase offset.
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?It's very interessing, so I'll take some times to study this (it's complex)!
Many thanks, Mark! Greetings from Paris.
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?Feel free to ask any questions
Just a note on the wavetable modulations here. It might help to understand what's going on better if you think that basically we're adding higher dimensionalit(ies) to the wavetable via the waveshaping, although I wouldn't want to be accused of flying too close to the sun with that one
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?
I've mentionned above the "inverted Saw" in VA OSCs, but Saw waveform is correct (after oscilloscope analysis), but its representation in DUNE 2 GUI is... inverted: of course, it's not a drama (but a bit confusing). Same also for saw in drop lists (when clicking arrow). Considerations. You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?I have a wavetable for doing waveform inversions if you want it
Re: DUNE 2: additional FM algorithms is possible?Here's a very simple waveshaping patch. Made with latest version of DUNE2.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
23 posts
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