Orion 9 Wishlist 2014

[bones]

Elastique........

Not a good example as anyone can timestretch far more accurately (higher quality) in a non-realtime environment like Soundforge or Audition. This is an example of Richard saving people who don't know what they are doing from themselves by refusing to compromise on sound quality.

Now it's your turn....name the "thousand features" Orion has that no one will never want or need..........

When was the last time you used Screamer? Or even Wasp? Wavefusion? Ultran? Sampler? I'm thinking most people have probably never even used DrumRack. Then there are all the effects - how long since you gave AD1 Distortion a workout? Or the Impulse Response Processor? Diffuse Delay?

[Teksonik]

This is an example of Richard saving people who don't know what they are doing from themselves by refusing to compromise on sound quality.

No this is an example of Rich not wanting to pay licensing fees for Elastique. It's good enough for Ableton Live and Cubase and FL Studio and Reaper and....all of which are far more popular than Orion and far more popular because people don't have to use kludgy workarounds in them.

anyone can timestretch far more accurately (higher quality) in a non-realtime environment like Soundforge

From Sony:
"Sound Forge Pro 10 offers three stretching/transposition options; of these, the latest and greatest is the new (and very high quality) "élastique" pitch shift algorithm from zPlane, a company that specializes in stretching algorithm".

Soundforge 11:
"Zplane™ élastique timestretch
élastique makes time-stretching artifacts obsolete. Based on state-of-the-art psychoacoustic models and signal processing theory, the result is stable timing, interchannel phase coherence, and sample-accurate stretching. Achieve formant-preserving pitch shifting that avoids the well-known pitfalls that can occur when pitching up or down. Choose from various stretching methods that are tailored to your source audio, and adjust settings while previewing".

When was the last time you used Screamer? Or even Wasp? Wavefusion? Ultran? Sampler? I'm thinking most people have probably never even used DrumRack. Then there are all the effects - how long since you gave AD1 Distortion a workout? Or the Impulse Response Processor? Diffuse Delay?

Ok that's about 40 or so plugins.....where are the other 960 features that Orion has that nobody will ever need ?

[bones]

Take any or all of them and you will easily get thousands of combinations. As for Elastique in SoundForge, you are just making my point for me, so thanks for that.

[Solid Technica]

This conversation reminds me a little of the with sylenth released 10 years ago. It is an amazingly simple synth, i mean, just look at the modulation options That said, its still one of the best out there and goes to show you don't need every bell and whistle to make good sounds and music. Similarily, Orion has just the necessary amount of features to make good sounds and music. Never felt I really lacked anything major really. Yes, there are other nice Daws out there with there own workflow and features - Studio One, Fl Studio. Both great daws, but come short in the most important thing, workflow. Nothing beats Orion, period.

[dmassive]

Nothing beats Orion, period.

+1

[Teksonik]

As for Elastique in SoundForge, you are just making my point for me, so thanks for that.

No, your point was that Rich never added Elastique because it isn't of sufficient quality...a lame argument and excuse you've made for many years. Then you sited Soundforge as a tool for high quality timestretch........and it uses Elastique. You actually argued against your own point. You can't possibly think that using an external tool to timestretch for example every loop you even want to audition is preferable to having built in timestretch. Every....other....DAW....has timestretch even the lowly EnergyXT has elastique. Sonar and Audition use iZotope’s Radius but the point is they have built in timestretch. You asked what anyone could possible want or need that Orion doesn't have. I answered Elastique....and then you reinforced my point by suggesting using Elastique in another app.

Not a good example as anyone can timestretch far more accurately (higher quality) in a non-realtime environment like Soundforge

So since Soundforge uses Elastique having Elastique in Orion would be the same quality and accuracy. Having to purchase a third party app like Soundforge that costs more than Orion itself is beyond silly.

[Teksonik]

Orion has just the necessary amount of features to make good sounds and music. Never felt I really lacked anything major really.

Yet twice in a year you've offered 1,000 dollars to encourage the further development of Orion. So obviously you think it's lacking something major.

Nothing beats Orion, period.

+1

The vast majority of the market disagrees with you. Development of Orion was stopped because of it's lack of popularity. It's lack of popularity is due to what it doesn't do not what it does. Simple as that..........

Anyway Orion is apparently dead and I say apparently dead because you can't even get Synapse to comment on it's future or lack thereof. If it's all you need then keep using it until it stops working. That's a perfectly acceptable course of action just as acceptable as not wanting to work with software that's been abandoned by it's developer. Again I don't blame Synapse at all for dropping Orion. I would have made the same decision given the facts at the time.

Orion already has problems with some of my favorite plugins which work in all the other DAWs I own so it's time for me to move on. I own other DAWS which are still in active development so I'll work with them..........

[Teksonik]

Pointless thread. Orion is dead. Get over it, move on.

Yep, the wisest words written in this thread. Over it, moving on.........

[Solid Technica]

There is a difference between lacking something and improvements

[Teksonik]

If it needs improvement then it's lacking something.

[Solid Technica]

Improvement applies to existing features Teksonik New ways to arrange things in the playlist, for instance. This was proposed by Richard at the beta forums. To lack features means that it was never there to begin with. As I said before, I never felt I lacked anything in Orion that would keep me from making the best music possible I could. I don't see how this could be argued with on a personal level, and certainly not over extend such a statement to apply to everyone.

[Teksonik]

I never felt I lacked anything in Orion that would keep me from making the best music possible I could.

Yet...........

New ways to arrange things in the playlist, for instance.

That's called a "feature"..........

I don't see how this could be argued with on a personal level, and certainly not over extend such a statement to apply to everyone.

I'm not arguing that on a personal level. Maybe you missed this part:

If it's all you need then keep using it until it stops working. That's a perfectly acceptable course of action just as acceptable as not wanting to work with software that's been abandoned by it's developer.

My point to Bones that his statement Orion has "all the features you could want or need (plus a thousand you won't) does not apply to everyone. It may have everything he or you need but obviously it doesn't have everything the vast majority of the market needs or the discussions about it would include more than a half dozen users.

If Orion does everything you want and you never felt you lacked anything in Orion that would keep you from making the best music possible you could then I wonder why you've twice offered $1,000 to encourage it's further development. But whatever, keep using it until it stops working which could be years in the future. I like Orion too but as I said some of my favorite plugins won't work in it so I'm moving on and forward......

[Solid Technica]

I never felt I lacked anything in Orion that would keep me from making the best music possible I could.

Yet...........

New ways to arrange things in the playlist, for instance.

That's called a "feature"..........

I don't see how this could be argued with on a personal level, and certainly not over extend such a statement to apply to everyone.

I'm not arguing that on a personal level. Maybe you missed this part:

If it's all you need then keep using it until it stops working. That's a perfectly acceptable course of action just as acceptable as not wanting to work with software that's been abandoned by it's developer.

My point to Bones that his statement Orion has "all the features you could want or need (plus a thousand you won't) does not apply to everyone. It may have everything he or you need but obviously it doesn't have everything the vast majority of the market needs or the discussions about it would include more than a half dozen users.

If Orion does everything you want and you never felt you lacked anything in Orion that would keep you from making the best music possible you could then I wonder why you've twice offered $1,000 to encourage it's further development. But whatever, keep using it until it stops working which could be years in the future. I like Orion too but as I said some of my favorite plugins won't work in it so I'm moving on and forward......

So many assumptions and semantics

You are mincing words. About I never felt Orion lacked features, you are arguing over a personal opinion of mine? Orion always being good for making music ( and not lacking anything to prevent it) and wishing to see it ongoing with the addition of new features and improvements, does not negate the original assertion that I never felt Orion ever lacked anything period. It is not a condradiction

I will likely be using Orion for atleast 5 more years, or as long as it takes for me to finish everything started there. Or maybe I could always transport the data to a different daw. Who knows, by then maybe there will be another daw from Synapse?

[Teksonik]

About I never felt Orion lacked features, you are arguing over a personal opinion of mine? Orion always being good for making music ( and not lacking anything to prevent it) and wishing to see it ongoing with the addition of new features and improvements, does not negate the original assertion that I never felt Orion ever lacked anything period. It is not a condradiction :

Yes it really is a contradiction whether you see it or not.

Anyway keep using Orion if it's all you'll ever need. I have other DAWs at my disposal that are in active development so I'll use them. Who knows what new features will actually be added to them in the next five years and how much they will help me grow artistically and technically in that time............

[bones]

... I suppose most importantly, frequent updates.

You know, there was a time when Orion got more updates than anything else around and that never helped grow the user base. I think, ultimately, what makes Orion so good is also why it is hard to attract customers. And that is the simple fact that Rich has always been far more interested in making Orion better than he has in adding whatever features people asked for the most. To put it another way, where companies like ImageLine have focused on doing the things that will sell more FL Studio licenses, Rich has always focused on making Orion better. Rich has always been about quality, not quantity and I think that works much better when you are selling VSTi than when you are trying to sell a sequencer, probably because you don't have to deal with cognitive biases so much (see below).

It (Orion) may have everything he or you need but obviously it doesn't have everything the vast majority of the market needs or the discussions about it would include more than a half dozen users.

The logic behind this statement is deeply flawed. Firstly, I'd be very surprised if even 5% of working musicians/producers in the world had ever heard of Orion, much less given it a try. You simply cannot make an informed decision about a product if you don't even know it exists. Orion's public profile fell off a cliff at around version 5, for whatever reason.

But the biggest flaw is the assumption that just because one product meets the needs of every possible user that it would be popular. It is simply one of dozens of applications that does so, which means if you are already using something that works for you, you are not motivated to see what else might be out there. And once someone rolls the dice and makes a decision, you then have a huge confirmation bias hurdle to overcome to get them to admit their first decision was wrong and switch. Once people become invested in a product, it is almost impossible to get them to switch to something else, no matter how much better it might be for them. That's why people keep buying the same brand of car and shopping at the same supermarket.