Doing The Unthinkable - Trying FL Studio

[bones]

I don't think Ableton could ever work for me, it's too much for DJs and dance music, not really for rock bands who want/need to play the song the same way every time.

Ok I'll take the bait....

I actually didn't have you in mind at the time. Obviously you have watched it grow up so you've adapted as it's changed. This is the first time I've touched it in probably 15 years so I was pretty much starting again from scratch.

Using F6 to close the Channel Rack is a perfect example of how unintuitive FL is. Every other window has a little "X" button in the top corner, so when you see a window without that, you assume it cannot be closed. I think I might have closed the Track Inspector when I was trying to arrange all my open windows into something that sort of resembled the layout I use in Orion, which would be why I couldn't work out how to add effects.

With all due respect I say give it some more time. Coming from Orion, FL Studio seems to "fight" you.

You forget that I used to be a Fruityloops beta tester. I gave up on it because after more than a year of serious hard work, I had written a couple of tunes but I hadn't managed to get even one of my/our existing songs working in it. OTOH, the first week I spent using Orion, I managed to get two of those songs up and running and sounding almost as good as they did on my hardware - a Korg Trinity, Kawai K5000, Ensoniq ASR-X and DP/4 effects unit. I'd also tried Cakewalk (pre-Sonar) and Cubase and been similarly unproductive with them.

One thing FL has over Orion is it's constant development. FL will continue to grow while Orion is what it is and will forever be so.

I don't necessarily see that as a plus, to be honest. Orion already does way more than I need it to. OTOH, FL is already way too convoluted so adding even more stuff can only add to that problem.

Which DAW you find to be closest to Orion?

I think probably Reason but I'd never bother with it because it is too closed. Other than that, there isn't really anything. I've looked at others, like EnergyXT and the software Mackie used to sell (can't remember what it was called) but none of them let me work the way I want to. I just had a look at Caustic and I could never make that interface work for me. I've also just installed Bitwig but it doesn't have so much as a demo song so I am going to have to find a project or two to load so I can see what's what.

The problem is that Orion's mixer-centric workflow is pretty much unique, which I find strange because the mixer is the centre of any studio, from a bedroom set-up to the biggest studios in the world.

[cuppa]

Bones,
Why don't you try Reaper?
Perfect for more rock type approach

[Christophe]

I don't think Ableton could ever work for me, it's too much for DJs and dance music, not really for rock bands who want/need to play the song the same way every time.

Ableton is perfect for pattern composition like orion is/was and the scene paradigm is very well implemented,
You can use ableton the way you want as a dj software to add loop to your mix or as a unlimited software to compose in session view or in arrange view like any traditional sequencer/daw.

[Solid Technica]

give mulab a try!

you might be productive in studio one since its very intuitive and everything is drag an drop. You could probably recreate the entire layout of a song from orion in studio one in about 15 minutes or less. simply save the preset, drag in playlist and it will load the vsti then drag the midi for each generator. Save fx chains in something like patchworks and it could indeed be far less than 15 minutes.

[Teksonik]

You forget that I used to be a Fruityloops beta tester..

Yes but that was 15 years ago right ? I do remember you got booted from the FL Forums......

Orion already does way more than I need it to. OTOH, FL is already way too convoluted so adding even more stuff can only add to that problem.

So why did you even bother to try another DAW especially FL Studio since you already hated it so much ? Then why bother posting about it ?

If FL is not your cup of tea then send it to the trash and keep using Orion if that's all you'll ever need. I'll keep working with FL because all of my plugins work in it and FL will continue to grow and hopefully me along with it.......

[Teksonik]

EDIT: Never mind. This isn't the place to talk about FL Studio.

Bottom line ? Don't like it don't use it...........

[funky koval]

What I find surprising is that some you find Live to be a such a departure from orion when it's actually the closest in emulating a similar workflow. Instead of sitting just above the device bar each pattern sits in the mixer channel. Not that big of a difference. In fact think of working in the clip launcher side of live as if you were working in pattern mode in orion. Once you get your pattern ideas down you then switch to the arrangeview(playlist) and drop the (clips)patterns in. The mixer is a little different, you have to put your eq in the device chain window so it's not as immediate as orion but I'm willing to live with that. The automation system in Live is superb, the whole thing is just super fast to work with. Once I got the hang of it I've been more productive in Live than I've ever been with any other host. If you want to hear the results check out my soundcloud page(keep in mind I'm just a passionate hobbyist not a pro).


p.s. FYI I've used Orion for a decade exclusively before I switched to live 2 years ago.

[Yorrrrrr]

So..is this really about finding an Orion replacement, because it's not good enough, or just bash FL Studio, because it's not good enough?

[Kriminal]

Live doesnt work here. After scanning my vst's it crashed and refused to start again. It was quickly deleted.

Mulab is pretty good, if orion ever stops working i'll use that (tho by then i prob wont be doing much)

[Christophe]

So..is this really about finding an Orion replacement, because it's not good enough, or just bash FL Studio, because it's not good enough?

we are talking about replacing orion because it is dead, we are not bashing anything or it will be moderated

[Christophe]

What I find surprising is that some you find Live to be a such a departure from orion when it's actually the closest in emulating a similar workflow. Instead of sitting just above the device bar each pattern sits in the mixer channel. Not that big of a difference. In fact think of working in the clip launcher side of live as if you were working in pattern mode in orion. Once you get your pattern ideas down you then switch to the arrangeview(playlist) and drop the (clips)patterns in. The mixer is a little different, you have to put your eq in the device chain window so it's not as immediate as orion but I'm willing to live with that. The automation system in Live is superb, the whole thing is just super fast to work with. Once I got the hang of it I've been more productive in Live than I've ever been with any other host. If you want to hear the results check out my soundcloud page(keep in mind I'm just a passionate hobbyist not a pro).


p.s. FYI I've used Orion for a decade exclusively before I switched to live 2 years ago.

+1, exactly that

[ThehakkeMadman]

A friend of mine uses Ableton Live and I tried it myself. I like it, so anybody here wants to buy Cubase 8.5 Pro from me?

[bones]

Bones,
Why don't you try Reaper?
Perfect for more rock type approach

Reaper seems to mimic the layout of Cubase/Cakewalk, which didn't work for me then and I can't see it working for me now. At $225, it is also quite expensive for something that ships with zero instruments, just a handful of effects and absolutely no sample content. Part of FL Studio's appeal is that it has WaspXT and, although I think they might do a VSTi version, I don't think it is a standalone purchase so may not work everywhere.

Wasp is a huge part of our sound. I don't think we have any songs that don't use at least one instance in a prominent role. Sure, I know I can make Dune sound like Wasp but Dune is a lot harder to work with. In fact, thinking about it, unwinding everything from Orion's native instruments and effects would be such a mammoth undertaking. I reckon we probably use 20 native effects for every one VST we use and every single song contains one or two DrumRacks, at least one Sampler, at least one Wasp and often a WaveFusion or Ultran (sometimes both).

give mulab a try!

I used to have their old software. It sounded great but I never got comfortable using it. It's also sequencer-centric, not mixer-centric, which doesn't really suit my brain. I've downloaded it, though, so I'll see how it goes.

So why did you even bother to try another DAW especially FL Studio since you already hated it so much ? Then why bother posting about it ?

Mostly because I am trying to find some inspiration and changing tools has always been good for that. Buying three new hardware synths didn't help so after I saw the FL Studio 12 demo video I thought I'd try another tack. Thinking further on it, though, I think there would be far too much hard work to switch at this point, which is likely to be far less inspiring. Still, you never know when something is just going to click the way Orion did for me 15 or 16 years ago so I'll try a few more demos before I give up. FL was just the first.

What I find surprising is that some you find Live to be a such a departure from orion when it's actually the closest in emulating a similar workflow.

Looking at it I have several concerns. First is that it costs a lot - well over a grand in my money for the full suite, although the entry level version is more affordable and I don't think I'd bump against any of its limitations (16 tracks is enough for any of our songs). Still, it is very limited for what is not exactly pocket change. But what concerns me more is that it isn't really designed with the way I work in mind, so I'd always be on the periphery, hoping that new features didn't screw with the way I work and that things I was relying on didn't get cut to make way for things I don't care about. e.g. I don't care how good the automation system is, Orion's does more than enough to meet my needs. I've probably been spoiled by Rich, who clearly thinks about things in a very similar way to me, but Orion's upgrades have mostly been very positive for me, except when he has listened to users, rather than doing what he thinks is best for the product.

[Teksonik]

but Orion's upgrades have mostly been very positive for me, except when he has listened to users, rather than doing what he thinks is best for the product.

You just never let it go do you ?

Yes what kind of crazy developer listens to what their users want ?

If he had also listened to what non-users wanted in Orion he might not have had to drop development and the loyal user base would number more than a dozen or so........

[Teksonik]