Dune 2 - Activating FX Slot 2 will change the sound

[Foxedge]

When I activate FX bus 2 on a patch, the sound instantly gets darker without anything from FX bus 2 activated.

[Teksonik]

Not here. No change in sound at all when activating FX2.

[Foxedge]

Okay I think I know what's causing this.
Make a new patch, add distortion to it on FX Bus 1 and then play a note, now activate FX Bus 2 - your sound will change.

Dune 2 probably multiplies the basic sound of the synthesizer how it would sound without FX Bus 1 when activating FX Bus 2.

That means that when you have distortion activated on FX bus 1 and activate FX bus 2 without adding anything, your sound will contain the synth once vanilla and once with the SFX from FX bus 1.

Still quite confusing, I thought FX Bus 2 lets me just add even more SFX in case I want to use a module twice (like having two different phaser for whatever reason), but this way one has to manually make all other modules even manually and probably has an increase in volume.

[Teksonik]

Oh ok so not just activated but an effect loaded in FX1. I can confirm the behavior here and not just with the Distortion. You can really hear it when using the default Chorus settings. Loading it in FX1 and then A/Bing it with FX2 On/Off makes a huge difference.

Well you might have discovered a bug or perhaps it's intended or unavoidable behavior or perhaps we're both missing something (to cover our backs just in case ). We'll have to wait to hear from the Developers to see what they say.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

I can confirm that. Don't know if it's intentional or not.

[Teksonik]

Hmmm ok maybe it was intended that voices were to be sent to either FX 1 or FX 2 and not both but I've been doing that for years. If you want Reverb on everything but Delay only on certain voices etc....send everything to FX1 and anything needing Delay also to FX2 and so on. I only activate FX2 when there is a effect loaded so that's probably why it's gone unnoticed here...or I'm deaf. To be honest I'm getting some pretty cool results by loading an effect in FX1 and simply turning on empty FX2.

EDIT: dammit I can never find the D2 manual.....I keep deleting the 32 bit folder. What does it say about the issue ?

Another test. Load a Delay into FX1, select 1/1 for L+R and set the Wet to 100%.....play a few notes. Then turn on empty FX2, play a few notes. It sounds like the effects have separate outputs. Try it and tell me what you think is going on.

So perhaps that's what the OP is talking about......two separate signal flows ? I'm interested to hear what Rich and Marcin have to say......

[Foxedge]

Hmm had a look at the manual, still not sure if intended or not. I mean, sending a voice through an FX Bus doesn't necessarily need to mean that it becomes a vanilla duplicate. I would as well just have thought of it as the voice is only taking everything additionally with it what's activated on FX bus 2.

FX 1 Enabling this button sends the voice through the first FX Bus. The FX bus can be enabled or disabled for each voice separately.
FX 2 Enabling this button sends the voice through the second FX Bus. The FX bus can be enabled or disabled for each voice separately.

[Teksonik]

So the FX are in Parallel not Series. Well this is an odd one. Only Synapse can say for sure what's going on. Might have something to do with the way the Unison Engine is structured but it doesn't seem like just adding an Empty FX2 should do anything but increase the Volume but then what the heck do I know.......

[Foxedge]

but it doesn't seem like just adding an Empty FX2 should do anything but increase the Volume but then what the heck do I know.......

Why should an empty FX2 increase the volume? It should do nothing if there is nothing activated inside
Or are you referring to the graphic.

[Teksonik]

Well if the FX are in Parallel it could be sending the signal to both outputs at the same time thereby boosting the volume even though there is nothing loaded. I don't know I'm just speculating and that's all any of us can do. Just have to wait to see if there is an official response.

That means that when you have distortion activated on FX bus 1 and activate FX bus 2 without adding anything, your sound will contain the synth once vanilla and once with the SFX from FX bus 1.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Well if the FX are in Parallel it could be sending the signal to both outputs at the same time thereby boosting the volume even though there is nothing loaded. I don't know I'm just speculating and that's all any of us can do. Just have to wait to see if there is an official response.

That would make sense.

So, if I'm not mistaking, the signal would get split into 2 equally loud parts, each sent to an FX bus. One would be treated with distortion, the other unaffected. At output, both would get summed into one signal.

Hmmm... this could actually be tested.

[Foxedge]

Hmmm... this could actually be tested.

It is like that, that's exactly what I described.
But it somehow seems pointless to me. As Teksonik said, I also usually only use FX Bus 2 if I run out of slots in the first one for a particular effect. That we need to copy/paste the whole modules + correct the volume seems to be an unnecessarily workaround to a simple goal.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Well, seems there's a bit more going on than simple summing of two signals.



If it was, the #4 (result) on the bottom left should be identical to the one at the center. But you can see differences.
Even just turning on an empty FX2 bus seems to introduce a difference in the signal (phasing maybe?) which you can see comparing #1 with #3 (bottom right).

Rich or Marcin will have to clarify what's going on there.

[Teksonik]

Rich or Marcin will have to clarify what's going on there.

I don't know why we even bother.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Rich or Marcin will have to clarify what's going on there.

I don't know why we even bother.

'cause we think we know stuff