Am I stupid Or Do DUNE 2's LFOs reset with every NOTE?

[bones]

I'm trying to do something simple in DUNE 2 - to modulate the cutoff in a bassline over two bars, in time with the song's tempo in Orion. But guess what? It doesn't work because when you light the SYNC button, it not only syncs to host tempo but it also resets the waveform with every note on event. Given this instrument's standing within the industry and the fact it has been around for a few years now, I have to assume I am doing something wrong but I can't for the life of me see what it is. Any enlightenment at this point would be appreciated.

BTW, you can't press SYNC, dial up the sync value you want and then turn it off because the LFO speed changes dramatically when you do that.

Teksonik - you were right, I should have spent a lot more time with DUNE 2, especially in beta testing, because this is something I'd have noticed very quickly. I only loaded it up tonight to do exactly what you suggested at KVR - spend some time with it.

[Kriminal]

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[Richard]

There is two ways to not reset the LFOs on every note:

1) Make sure POLY is off.
2) Set the LFO phase to Random in the mod matrix.

[Christophe]

thanks Krim, i think the solution is below :

Under the SETTINGS tab there is two ways of doing sync, "Internal" and "Host".

Choose "Host sync" if you want LFO/MSEGs to line up with the song, regardless of the notes you play. Choose "Internal" if you want to trigger modulation with Note On commands. From your description it sounds to me it is "Host Sync" you want, and Poly=off.

[bones]

There is two ways to not reset the LFOs on every note:
1) Make sure POLY is off.
2) Set the LFO phase to Random in the mod matrix.

That seems like a lot of work for a simple thing, don't you think? Wasp, and every other synth I've ever used, does it perfectly just by pressing the SYNC button. This feels broken; a simple thing like modulating cutoff with an LFO shouldn't require visits to different parts of the GUI. I think you need to change the default behaviour so that it works as expected or add an extra "RESET" button to each LFO or something.

On a related note - I love Wasp!! When I couldn't get DUNE to work, I fired up Wasp and had something a million times better in about two minutes. I was sitting in front of the TV, half watching the footy and half going through presets in my newly acquired NI Massive, as well as DUNE and a few other things. I listened to all the bass patches in DUNE's default bank and about 100 bass presets from Massive and nothing came close to what I got out of Wasp in just a few minutes. When I A/B'd Wasp against Massive and DUNE it was no contest - Wasp had way more bottom end balls than either of them and the way it responded to velocity and LFO modulation was incredible. Where the other synths kind of stomped along stoically, Wasp bubbled and fizzed with life and depth and expressiveness. I'm sure I could coax more out of the others but I doubt they'd get to the same level Wasp is at with almost no effort. Wasp is the supreme synth bass machine, absolutely nothing can touch it.

[ThehakkeMadman]

Ha! So I'm not alone, I love the WASP, too. Not only because I have known Orion since Demo 1.5 but because it has its unike sounding character, and we all know that's the point with music instruments (do I repeat myself that often?) !
Sure, comparing something like Dune II and that oldschool WASP isn't that fair, but I know what you mean. I have the VirusTI2 (which some people say it was the clo... inspiration for Dune 1) and I was often getting mad about things that I thought were basics, like it wasn't pointed out that you can't use the analog/digital inputs (in sync) when using the Total Control VST at the same time. And I spent hours and hours until I found out about that, but that's a different story (I'd say Total Control aka TOTAL INTEGRATION is a good description if you exclude VSTs from your mind... and have the Virus as your main audio interface)
Just wanted to say: as complex as Dune/Virus is, trying to recreate a powerful bass-full sound like WASP is as hard as recreating some surpassing 303-sounds... sorry, had no other example in mind because I still remember your oppinion about the 303(sound)

[ufo]

Yeah boyz
It's still my fave signal generator.
If it had been a real world device I prob would have had to replace all the pots by now.

I remember once upon a time asking rich to make a poly wasp with a mod matrix, suggesting he may call it hive.
I think that eventuates into the DUNE project.

Also fucking awesome, but that wasp......I think I see it more than my family!

peace, luv and acid

[Teksonik]

Ok I'll bite.....

Please do post some Wasp Patches. I am genuinely interested in the magic you guys are hearing that's not present in DUNE 2. I'm sure Rich and Marcin would like to know if their later synths are inferior in sound to Wasp.......

[Kriminal]

There is two ways to not reset the LFOs on every note:
1) Make sure POLY is off.
2) Set the LFO phase to Random in the mod matrix.

That seems like a lot of work for a simple thing, don't you think?

Making sure Poly is off is a lot of work?

Remind me not to hire you for a job

[Kriminal]

Ok I'll bite.....

Please do post some Wasp Patches. I am genuinely interested in the magic you guys are hearing that's not present in DUNE 2. I'm sure Rich and Marcin would like to know if their later synths are inferior in sound to Wasp.......

To be honest, i still use Wasp a lot for basslines. Mainly as i have a few really good sounds i like from years ago that i havent transfered to D2. D2 is my go to pad machine tho.

[Teksonik]

But you could port them to DUNE 2 with no problem right ? It's just a matter of taking the time ?

The thing is to use Wasp you must use Orion which I no longer do. Yes there is a 32 bit version in FL Studio but I'm not sure it's 1:1 the same as the Wasp in Orion and I don't use the 32 bit version of FL Studio so......(EDIT: FL has a bit bridge but it doesn't work with some native plugins like Wasp. They are being phase out)

Anyway I still maintain there is nothing Wasp can do that can't be done in DUNE 2 but it might take an extra mouse click. If that's too much effort then I don't know what to say.......

[Teksonik]

There is two ways to not reset the LFOs on every note:
1) Make sure POLY is off.
2) Set the LFO phase to Random in the mod matrix.

That seems like a lot of work for a simple thing, don't you think?

Making sure Poly is off is a lot of work?
Remind me not to hire you for a job

Exactly !

My point is that once you spend some time with DUNE 2 it can be just as fast as Wasp. It might take me five seconds more to program the same patch from Init but the additional sonic abilities D2 brings to the table makes it worth getting comfortable with the workflow in my opinion.

The new filters are worth it alone.....

[Kriminal]

But you could port them to DUNE 2 with no problem right ? It's just a matter of taking the time ?

I possibly could but....

1. Im very lazy
2. If i already have a sound i like, why do i need it on another synth? (Tho this does seem very common among so called 'sound designers' who release the same bank of sounds for 10 diff synths....)

[Teksonik]

2. If i already have a sound i like, why do i need it on another synth?

My point was it's not because the sound could only be made with Wasp but that you could easily replicate the patch in DUNE 2 if you were so motivated.

If you never plan on working outside of Orion then I can see not wanting to spend the time to duplicate the patch in DUNE 2.

However I can not see programming any new patches in Wasp if you own DUNE 2 or The Legend.

I fired up Orion today for the first time in a long time to give Wasp another listen. It's not a bad synth but given the tools I have at my fingertips these days it has simply become obsolete.

[bones]

Making sure Poly is off is a lot of work?

That might have been clever if making sure POLY was off fixed the problem but it doesn't, so it's not. What else you got?

Anyway I still maintain there is nothing Wasp can do that can't be done in DUNE 2 but it might take an extra mouse click. If that's too much effort then I don't know what to say.......

OK, then, here's your chance to prove it. As you no longer have access to Wasp, here's an MP3 I made of the patch I was talking about. Literally two minutes work to go from the Avalon preset to this - https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhDr3VAcPPPegZY7nGt2J8LzZ8Un8Q

Of course, that was followed by about half-an-hour of wrestling with DUNE 2 before realising it was busted but I still didn't get anywhere near to this. Just to help you get started, here's a screen shot of the Wasp's settings so you know what to aim for - https://imgur.com/a/KgzEA

My point is that once you spend some time with DUNE 2 it can be just as fast as Wasp. It might take me five seconds more to program the same patch from Init but the additional sonic abilities D2 brings to the table makes it worth getting comfortable with the workflow in my opinion.

But why would I bother? Maybe if DUNE 2 was the only great synth around but we're spoiled for choice so I'll always choose something that I don't have to spend unproductive hours learning , like The Legend or Wasp or (gasp!) kHs One.

The new filters are worth it alone.....

Really? For me it's the filters I can't get to work as well. Wasp's LP Fat and LP+Notch are what makes Wasp so handy/nasty and irreplaceable.