Poll: What music genres do you?

[Foxedge]

Hey guys! Would like to find out what music genre you create
If your genre is missing in the option you can as well just write it in a comment!

[Christophe]

House

[Touch The Universe]

Wow. A poll actually including Psy/Goa on it

[bones]

What's the difference?

The rise of people interested in doing film score type stuff is fascinating. There seems to be so much stuff out there these days that caters to that market. I find it amazing. Do those people think they can get work doing it or is it just a hobby? I imagine it would be very, very difficult to get into. You'd probably have to know someone who could give you a leg-up.

[bangerlab]

So until now I see that the world produces cinematic, I did not expect

[Foxedge]

It for sure will be pretty tough to get into film scoring and to actually make good money out of it. But I think the problem isn't to find the right contacts then or to get a job, but to become so good that you could actually work as composer.

Because if you get a job and they want you to make a 100 minute soundtrack (which doesn't include the other 200 minutes that won't make it into the final product) you need to be able to pull of 20, 30, 40 full tracks within the deadline. That means that one needs to be really comfortable with writing music, with a pretty good workflow and a really deep understanding of music theory. Because if you lose inspiration or motivation or simply can't proceed after 5 tracks because you hit the limits of your skills to create more diverse tracks, then you won't get the job done.

Once after years of practicing one does achieve this level, I believe that making the way into the industry isn't that hard anymore,
but to get to this level of skill is.

Personally I do it mainly just as hobby because to me it's fun to create my own settings/worlds and then try to express that in my music. That's a different approach of writing than doing it to create music with the main purpose to entertain. Originally I wanted to get really far and maybe one day be able to work as a composer for films and games, but after years of pretty decent progress with learning, it's getting more tough to master the next step and I'm not sure anymore if I'll be able to continuously put the same effort into it, or just do something else and keep this as a still awesome hobby.

[kmatm]

None of the above.

[bones]

That's a very enlightening response.

It for sure will be pretty tough to get into film scoring and to actually make good money out of it. But I think the problem isn't to find the right contacts then or to get a job, but to become so good that you could actually work as composer.

You think? I reckon it's pretty easy stuff to do. Pretty much everything I do feels like it could be useful as film music. Hans Zimmer had no formal training and look where he's got to.

Because if you get a job and they want you to make a 100 minute soundtrack (which doesn't include the other 200 minutes that won't make it into the final product) you need to be able to pull of 20, 30, 40 full tracks within the deadline.

Sure but the cool thing about it is that it will be mostly theme and variation, like a symphony, which means it is all about arrangement, which mostly requires a good work ethic. Or a lot of it won't be music at all, but atmosphere.

[Kriminal]

HZ has ruined prob the last 6 films ive seen with his "score".

Cant stand his stuff.

[Foxedge]

You think? I reckon it's pretty easy stuff to do. Pretty much everything I do feels like it could be useful as film music. Hans Zimmer had no formal training and look where he's got to.

I feel the same about most of my stuff, but the question is if the directors do feel that too. Working for someone is different than working for yourself, and then again, it's not easy to deliver such a high quantity of high quality stuff and to pull out one great idea after another. I can probably make now 2 or 3 tracks of the same kind under pressure within two weeks. But making 10 tracks of the same kind within one month? Now that's tough. I couldn't guarantee that to the director. I am not yet past that point were composing is just "a job", a thing "I simply do", I still need to see if it will go well or not, because I gotta learn a lot still.

Afaik Hans Zimmer had some basic training in music theory, notation etc. but then at some point denied it and did his own thing.
I wouldn't wonder though if he had learned it all by himself until today, because it's simply a huge benefit to understand what you're doing, making conclusions, understanding connections and last but not least, to communicate with other musicans, especially when you hire an orchestra and other solo instrumentalists.

But nonetheless, no matter if you understand music theory or just compose by ear or feel, I think the really difficult thing is to deliver constant quality and not to run out of ideas, which requires a high skill cap on your side, and then there is still the whole part of working for someone because it's most likely not that you get the job, do your thing alone for 5 months, send out the final result and get your paycheck. You'll have to work with the director together close in those months with a lot of communication to get the best result for the project, and that then again requires not only social skills when it comes to discussions about how to do details, and to really understand the directions and his thoughts well. As well there can come new elements into the project at any time, maybe stuff that you've never worked on before, and then you'll need to be able to adapt quickly, learn the new stuff and still make it within the deadline.

BTW, I never worked for a director or wrote for a project others than my own, the knowledge I share here are things that I've heard from other (bigger) composers working in the industry. Of course there will be different experiences across the industry.

[bones]

but the question is if the directors do feel that too.

That's not the question because the directors will never get to hear you at all, so they will never have an opinion one way or the other. That's the problem. A director has enough to do, he/she is never going to sit down and listen to demo tapes to find a composer. They will go with someone they have worked with before or someone a producer has found for them, because the producer, or someone he/she knows, has worked with that person before. That's the challenge, to get yourself into contention at all. Once you can do that, then you can start to worry about what the director wants.

I am not yet past that point were composing is just "a job", a thing "I simply do", I still need to see if it will go well or not, because I gotta learn a lot still.

Trust me, nobody who works in film or TV production or post-production thinks of it as "just a job". Everybody is passionate about what they do and work way harder than anyone who thinks of work as "just a job". I reckon if I didn't have to work full-time, I could easily bang out 10 pieces in a month,. Music is easy, it's lyrics that I find hard. That said, I've written lyrics for eight songs so far this year.

The other aspect of it, of course, is that you aren't searching for inspiration, you are watching the moving images on the film and using that as inspiration. It's the nature of the work.

I wouldn't wonder though if he had learned it all by himself until today, because it's simply a huge benefit to understand what you're doing, making conclusions, understanding connections and last but not least, to communicate with other musicans, especially when you hire an orchestra and other solo instrumentalists.

That's a whole different kettle of fish. I wouldn't want to do that kind of work. I'd only want to work with my own tools in my set-up.

[Foxedge]

but the question is if the directors do feel that too.

That's not the question because the directors will never get to hear you at all, so they will never have an opinion one way or the other.

You misunderstood me here. I was referring to when you apply for working on a project and someone is actually listening through your compositions to decide if you get the job or not.

I am not yet past that point were composing is just "a job", a thing "I simply do", I still need to see if it will go well or not, because I gotta learn a lot still.

Trust me, nobody who works in film or TV production or post-production thinks of it as "just a job". Everybody is passionate about what they do and work way harder than anyone who thinks of work as "just a job".

That's a misunderstanding too I didn't mean it literally. Of course those people work passionately. My point was another. There are lot of talented people out there who can write awesome tracks, but they still kind of "stumble" through them and still learn while they create them (and yeah, I know that we will be learning forever but you get my point) and for the awesome result it doesn't matter if it took 1 month to create it, with a week of a break, researching, learning and adapting halfway. Some songs go like that, others are easy from the beginning until the end because they had great inspiration and motivation in that time, but it's never steady, they never know before how well it will go, kind of a gamble.

But if you're working as professional on a project with a deadline, you can't tell the director that you right now don't know how to proceed and that you can't deliver in time. A professional composer must be past that certain point of skill where that happens - he needs to understand the whole matter of writing music so well that he can just pull great tracks out at any time, always, without the danger of getting stuck due to the lack of knowledge here and there. The avaiable set of skills must be diverse and proof.

That was what I wanted to express, it is a very hard level to reach. And of course even a Hans Zimmer and JunkieXL do still sit in front of a blank paper for weeks in the very beginning, thinking about how and where to start. But their thoughts are pretty advanced about the masterplan and completely different from the issues a not so experienced composer at that point still has to deal with.

[bones]

You misunderstood me here. I was referring to when you apply for working on a project and someone is actually listening through your compositions to decide if you get the job or not.

NO, I got it. I was telling you that just because you apply for a job doesn't mean anyone will get around to listening to your demos. Production staff simply won't have the time. I've been working in the industry for 21 years. In that time I have had more than a dozen different jobs and I only ever got one of them by applying. Every other job I have got has been through someone I know or someone who knows me. That's how the industry works because nobody has time to go through an application-selection process.

he needs to understand the whole matter of writing music so well that he can just pull great tracks out at any time, always, without the danger of getting stuck due to the lack of knowledge here and there. The avaiable set of skills must be diverse and proof.

Again, I think you are talking about a whole different thing to me. When was the last time you watched a film that had 10 "great tracks"? Most of the stuff I like has maybe one piece with more than just one or two instruments and everything else is just atmosphere - a couple of moody string chords or light percussion. If you want to be the next John WIlliams, you need to go and study music at a conservatory somewhere so you can learn orchestral arrangement and all of that stuff. OTOH, if I wanted to be anything it would be the next Mark Snow or Ramin Djawadi.

That was what I wanted to express, it is a very hard level to reach.

I dunno, if Clint Mansell and Graeme Revell can do it, how hard can it be? Revell, for example, used a song he'd already written as the basis for his first film score so he didn't need any inspiration at all to get into the business. One song spun into to a whole score that was good enough to lead to a successful career.

I think the mistake you make is assuming that to get anywhere you have to be good. That's not often the case. Mostly you just have to be good enough or have the confidence to convince others you are. Experience matters far more than qualifications. That's how the world works.

[Touch The Universe]

The best 'cinematic' music is in game soundtracks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqryasRIu-k

[Foxedge]

NO, I got it. I was telling you that just because you apply for a job doesn't mean anyone will get around to listening to your demos. Production staff simply won't have the time. I've been working in the industry for 21 years. In that time I have had more than a dozen different jobs and I only ever got one of them by applying. Every other job I have got has been through someone I know or someone who knows me. That's how the industry works because nobody has time to go through an application-selection process.

For my point it didn't matter in what way you've catched the attention of the director, if you applied or got recommended by your contacts. Either way they most likely don't hire your blindfold even if you got recommended by a person they trust, they check back your stuff and decide then if you're the right on for their project.

If you get hired a 2nd, 3rd time and so on by the same guys that's a different thing. But they will have still checked your stuff once before hiring you the first time - hopefully.

And all I wanted to say is, if you get to the point where someone is checking your stuff finally to decide if you'll get the job, you better be good (enough) because if you're not, the recommendation alone won't do much for you. Vice versa, and your shared experience does seem to confirm that, the main issue might not be to get jobs by contacts. I'm pretty confident that in the digital age it's easier than ever before, to make contacts and get attention, if you have some decent social skills and a qualitative presentation of your portfolio. Personally I believe that the composing skills are more crucial.

Again, I think you are talking about a whole different thing to me. When was the last time you watched a film that had 10 "great tracks"? Most of the stuff I like has maybe one piece with more than just one or two instruments and everything else is just atmosphere - a couple of moody string chords or light percussion. If you want to be the next John WIlliams, you need to go and study music at a conservatory somewhere so you can learn orchestral arrangement and all of that stuff. OTOH, if I wanted to be anything it would be the next Mark Snow or Ramin Djawadi.

Ghost in the shell 2017 by Lorn Balfe for instance, but of course that's a matter of personal taste and there is a lot of quiet underscore included. I wasn't referring to orchestral music only, even a sound design heavy project does require a lot of skill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLBYxr3SbkA

But cinematic music is not only present in the film world, I as well thought of games that tend to have even more complex music pieces because they have less underscore moments and are way longer than movies. Look at the Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Mankind Divided OST, or those for the two Mirror Edge games - they're all really great, one after another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyG6YMLEWus (DX HR)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dmSXDMk0hk (DX MD)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y05wiQQbFLU (Mirrors Edge)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQLIWkJPmo8 (Mirrors Edge Catalyst)

Or look at games by supergiant games, such as Transistor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zA1jRmAYfU

Even the pretty unknown game Neo Tokyo had an insanely well composed OST, compared to how little it was:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=408tWOubRDM

IMO game soundtracks are far superior to those for the most films. The requirements are already higher in the indie/mid- budget range and in the game industry probably has tons of more jobs for composers than the film industry has, since games can be done easier with a not so huge budget by smaller teams than films.

I think the mistake you make is assuming that to get anywhere you have to be good. That's not often the case. Mostly you just have to be good enough or have the confidence to convince others you are. Experience matters far more than qualifications. That's how the world works.

Again, depends on what projects you work on. This might be true for a few low-mid budget indie projects, if you want to play in the higher league, it takes a bit more to convince people that you're good even if they don't feel that you're good in their view. Especially the more experienced the director is and the better the composers were that he worked with in the past. But I get your point, and of course self-promotion and experience is very important, and not every project requires a masterpiece of a soundtrack.