Dune 3 retina support

[db3]

Please can you add Mac retina support to Dune 3? I really don't enjoy looking at blurred plugs in (almost) 2019.

NB) Same goes for the Legend.

Cheers!

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Have you tried changing the skin to "Huge"?

[db3]

Have you tried changing the skin to "Huge"?

Of course, then I get a huge fullscreen Dune 3

Mac retina essentially displays everything at an equivalent size to a non-retina display, but at much high pixel density. For graphics to be sharp on retina, they need to be hi-res (like the huge version), but not upscaled in size by the OS. i.e. The huge Dune 3 skin would be fine if it filled 25% off my screen not 100%. I guess there's some way for software to check for retina and report optimal display config to the OS.

NB) I have 3 retina screens, blurring is less obvious on a 13" MacBook Pro, but quite bad on 22" displays. Plugins were slow to support retina, but most now do.

[bones]

Sorry but it doesn't work like that. If your Mac is displaying it blurry, it's a problem with your Mac, not with the plugin. When you look at a 300dpi image on a computer screen, you don't see it at 300dpi, you see it at the native screen resolution - 72ppi for Mac and Linux, 96ppi for Windows. The OS should do all the scaling for you from there, although if the Huge skin is too big it sounds like it is not scaling at all. i.e. Displaying at 100% scaling. The problem with macOS is that it doesn't tell you that, it just says bigger or smaller, which is not very helpful.

[Christophe]

Sorry but it doesn't work like that. If your Mac is displaying it blurry, it's a problem with your Mac, not with the plugin. When you look at a 300dpi image on a computer screen, you don't see it at 300dpi, you see it at the native screen resolution - 72ppi for Mac and Linux, 96ppi for Windows.

Since 2010, screen ppi for mac are higher than 218 ppi (up to 458 ppi for the iphone X)
Retina screen have 2 to 3 times more pixel density over its non-Retina counterpart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display
http://dpi.lv/

[db3]

Yep, sorry Bones but you are incorrect. Retina screens display super sharp hi-ppi text and graphics like smartphones (when applications are optimised for them).

Take my LG Ultrafine monitor (218 ppi) as an example — MacOS produces a workspace equivalent to 1024x576 at 4x dot pitch (4096x2304 native resolution).

Therefore DUNE 3 in huge mode is displayed huge because it's not optimised for retina pixel density. It's being up-scaled 4x by MacOS...which is why it looks blurred.

Pretty much all applications now support retina, and most new plugins, so I would hope it's not too difficult to implement.

[Teksonik]

Doesn't BONES do professional level graphics for a living ? I don't own a Mac so don't know how Retina works but it seems like he would

Anyway wouldn't Rich or Marcin have run across the same issue of a blurry GUI when they were programing the Mac version of Dune 3 on their Macs or are there different levels of displays ? I just assumed all Macs of certain age would be Retina capable but again I've never owned a Mac....

[bones]

Yes, this is stuff I have been dealing with on a daily basis as a professional for 23 years and I have been trying to teach it to students, on and off, for around 16 years.

Since 2010, screen ppi for mac are higher than 218 ppi (up to 458 ppi for the iphone X)

That's iOS, not macOS, they are two different OS made for very different purposes.

Retina screen have 2 to 3 times more pixel density over its non-Retina counterpart.

Again, that's not how it works. A 27" 4k screen is a 27" 4k screen but only Apple can call it a "Retina Display" because they have trademarked the name. It is just marketing jargon thought up by Apple to dupe stupid people who don't know any better. The Wikipedia article you link to says as much. e.g. It uses what Steve Jobs says as the definition of "Retina" - "Steve Jobs said the number of pixels needed for a Retina display is about..." Clearly there is zero scientific basis to any of it, it's just marketing BS. In fact, this is probably the worst Wikipedia page I have ever read. Whoever put it together writes in the first person in part of it -"in my opinion, what Jobs said was fine". Unbelievable!

Honestly Christophe, I'd have thought you'd know better, mate. It's a typical Apple con job.

Yep, sorry Bones but you are incorrect. Retina screens display super sharp hi-ppi text and graphics like smartphones (when applications are optimised for them).

That's not an explanation of anything. It's empty jargon that doesn't tell anyone anything at all about screen technology. Back in the day, around the turn of the Century, I used to run my 15" CRT display at 3200 x 2400 but no-one ever called it "retina" because, if I'd wanted to, I could have run it at twice that resolution because CRTs don't have fixed pixels like a flat-screen does. It's just something you could do if you had enough graphics grunt to power it.

Take my LG Ultrafine monitor (218 ppi) as an example — MacOS produces a workspace equivalent to 1024x576 at 4x dot pitch (4096x2304 native resolution).

Yes, that's what we call a 4k monitor and Dell, Acer, Lenovo, HP, Asus and everyone else all have them. In fact, all our new MacPros at work have two 4k Dell monitors. The thing is, though, that we all prefer to work with the much older, non "Retina" Apple Cinema displays, because they are 30" screens that run at 2.5k (2560x1440) and therefore offer more usable screen real estate, because you don't have to scale them to see anything.
BTW, I doubt you could work on a screen that was effectively 1024x576 in 2018, I think you'll find you are running at 200%, which is 2048x1152, That will give you four screen pixels per output pixel.

Therefore DUNE 3 in huge mode is displayed huge because it's not optimised for retina pixel density. It's being up-scaled 4x by MacOS...which is why it looks blurred.

Exactly, that is precisely what you'd expect. The HUGE size is for people who aren't scaling their monitor, i.e. are running at 100%, not for people like you, who are using 200% scaling. When I load DUNE on my scaled Windows display, it scales perfectly with all the other GUIs on screen (which is why I have to use the smallest skin size). For reference, my PC has a 13" screen at 2160x1440, which I run at 150%, which gives me an effective screen size of 1440x960.

Pretty much all applications now support retina, and most new plugins, so I would hope it's not too difficult to implement.

And DUNE is no exception, you just don't have the knowledge and understanding to realise this. GUIs that don't properly support scaling show up at native resolution, which would look tiny on your scaled screen. (I have this problem with Adobe CS6.) Seriously, this is stuff I used to teach students on Day One of a course. It's not hard to understand, you just have to stop believing everything Apple's marketing dept try to tell you and look at it logically.

The bottom line is this - if you use any screen scaling on your high ppi display, you need to use a smaller skin size, not a larger one.

[goober]

Please can you add Mac retina support to Dune 3?

Yes please!

I'm on a 4K iMac and Dune 3 could really use high resolution support. The Large and Huge options don't really help, and lack the crispness of a high resolution interface.

[Kriminal]

buy a proper computer

[Teksonik]

Please can you add Mac retina support to Dune 3?

Yes please!
I'm on a 4K iMac and Dune 3 could really use high resolution support. The Large and Huge options don't really help, and lack the crispness of a high resolution interface.

From this thread:

The bottom line is this - if you use any screen scaling on your high ppi display, you need to use a smaller skin size, not a larger one.

There is a reason why the GUI was not blurry for Rich and Marcin while they were developing the Mac version of Dune 3. Otherwise it seems like they would have noticed it right away and fixed the issue.

It appears to be related to Scaling. If they were using standard scaling and you are using a custom scaling that might explain why you find the GUI blurry and they did not. I don't think every Mac user has complained about a blurry GUI.

[bones]

How about someone takes a screenshot to show us the problem? Is that too much to ask?

[Teksonik]

Yes I'm not getting why some Mac users are complaining and some are not and why Rich or Marcin didn't experience the same thing.

Indeed a screenshot would go a long way........

[goober]

Please can you add Mac retina support to Dune 3?

Yes please!
I'm on a 4K iMac and Dune 3 could really use high resolution support. The Large and Huge options don't really help, and lack the crispness of a high resolution interface.

From this thread:

The bottom line is this - if you use any screen scaling on your high ppi display, you need to use a smaller skin size, not a larger one.

There is a reason why the GUI was not blurry for Rich and Marcin while they were developing the Mac version of Dune 3. Otherwise it seems like they would have noticed it right away and fixed the issue.

It appears to be related to Scaling. If they were using standard scaling and you are using a custom scaling that might explain why you find the GUI blurry and they did not. I don't think every Mac user has complained about a blurry GUI.

On the Synapse website is says Dune 3 is now updated to HD. Apple's high resolution screens are considered UHD. Maybe the developers thought one upgrade is enough, who knows. Bottom line is it's not optimized for a 4K iMac.

I'm using the default settings for the iMac display, not a scaled setting. Scaled setting won't make a difference.

How about someone takes a screenshot to show us the problem? Is that too much to ask?

Dune 3 HiRes.png

The top is Dune 3 on a 4K iMac with the Default skin, the bottom is the skin image taken from the Huge skin folder. As you can see, a significant difference.

What needs to happen is they need to take the Huge skin images and fit them into the Default skin screen space, at least. If they can make even bigger images than the ones used for Huge, and fit them into the Default skin screen space, that would be even better.

[Teksonik]

And one more time. Why did Rich and/or Marcin not notice this when they were programming the Mac version of Dune 3 ?