Feature request:- LFO phase locked to song position

[hesnotthemessiah]

your mp3 link doesnt work, and the file wont play when downloaded, so i cant help

What happens when you click Open or Save?

[hesnotthemessiah]

Dune 16bit.mp3

The above link contains the following:-

Which we won't know cause it says:

Access Denied!
This file is not available because you are either not logged-in or do not have the owner's permission to view it.

But here's Dune in sync with kick, without the Reset being on: DuneLFOsyncTest.mp3
Note that the bass note is just one 16 steps long note and not 4 notes placed in between two kicks. The LFO controls the volume at the constant rate and phase. Nothing more.

With that said, I don't know if I'm getting a better understanding now of what you're getting at, but just as I was doing more tests with it, I couldn't make it do cutoff sweep when there's a sequence of notes in the pattern. It works flawlessly with one long note, but couldn't hear it with a sequence. It's possible I'm doing it wrong, though.

I can't use your link HYPNAGOGIA. I get the message:- The requested URL /stuff/orion/files/DuneLFOsyncTest.mp3 was not found on this server.

[hesnotthemessiah]

Apparently, you have to be logged into the site or have my permission to access it! It only worked for me because I was logged in. Flippin useful that is!! I will see if I can get another link setup now........

[hesnotthemessiah]

A different link setup:-

http://www.qfpost.com/download.do?get=e3bd7661b917525b6cb742fcd179942f

Have checked and it works - at least for now!

Cubase5 with 3 vstis:- 1 FabFilter Twin2 and 2 Dunes each with a pulsewave lfo set at 1/4 tempo sync. Both Dunes' settings are identical except that the first Dune has RESET on. The second has RESET off.


0.00 A 4/4 bass drum beat starts.

0.05 to 0.36
FabFilter Twin 2 is triggered twice. First trigger on the bar. Second trigger at a point roughly half way between a bar. Each time Twin 2's volume raises to maximum on the off beat.

0.39 to 1.10
First Dune is triggered twice. First trigger on the bar. Second trigger at a point roughly half way between a bar. First time Twin 2's volume raises to maximum on the off beat. Second time it doesn't.

1.12 to 1.43
Second Dune is triggered twice. First trigger on the bar. Second trigger at a point roughly half way between a bar. First time Twin 2's volume raises to maximum on the off beat. Second time it doesn't.

[hesnotthemessiah]

Dune 16bit.mp3

The above link contains the following:-

Which we won't know cause it says:

Access Denied!
This file is not available because you are either not logged-in or do not have the owner's permission to view it.

But here's Dune in sync with kick, without the Reset being on: DuneLFOsyncTest.mp3
Note that the bass note is just one 16 steps long note and not 4 notes placed in between two kicks. The LFO controls the volume at the constant rate and phase. Nothing more.

Sorry I can't access your link. Using the same pattern and Dune patch you used previously, duplicate the pattern you created of the two kicks. Do this for about 100 or so bars. Now play this pattern. Trigger Dune at random points over the 100 or so bars for 16 step long notes. Do you still always get the lfo giving the same effect of those 4 notes, in the same place as before, between the two kicks regardless of when you trigger Dune?

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Ahahaha... must be the bad links day

Anyway. I don't get what you mean by "two kicks", but here's that file again.

It's created using an Init patch, 128 bars, just has two lines in the ModMatrix, 1x16 step note per pattern, and LFO set to Square, Sync, at 1/4 Rate, 50% Skew and no Reset. I haven't noticed it dropping out of sync at any point.

[Kriminal]

your mp3 link doesnt work, and the file wont play when downloaded, so i cant help

What happens when you click Open or Save?

the file downloads but wont play in anything i have

[Richard]

Either having RESET enabled or setting a LFO to a specific phase retriggers that LFO for each note played, as Kriminal stated earlier - independent of whether tempo sync is in use or not.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

So, the culprit in that case is Phase? Kind of doesn't make sense. If I want a cutoff sweep with certain phase shift to go across the sequence, it's impossible because the phase retriggers the modulation? I guess the obvious answer in that case is "use the automation".

[hesnotthemessiah]

So, the culprit in that case is Phase? Kind of doesn't make sense. If I want a cutoff sweep with certain phase shift to go across the sequence, it's impossible because the phase retriggers the modulation? I guess the obvious answer in that case is "use the automation".

I think you might be getting what I mean. Imagine you have an arpeggiator pattern in Dune, so your notes are triggered in quick succession. You have an lfo controlling filter cut off which you set to sync value 2/1 so that it modulates the filter cutoff in cycles over 2 bars. You want the phase of the lfo to start on the first bar and to end on the third bar where it then restarts again and so on. But if you have RESET on then the lfo will be retriggered with every note. So you can't have RESET on if you want the phase of the lfo to start on the first bar and to end on the third bar where it then restarts again and so on.

If you have RESET off then the lfo will always start at a random point in it's cycle. Try it out. Put a note in your DAW, a few bars long, to trigger Dune on the first bar. Use Dune's Init Patch. Set SYNC to 2/1. Set RESET to off. Choose the Pulse wave with SKEW set to 50%. Now play the note. Now stop, go back and replay the note. Keep doing this and you will hear clearly that the lfo in Dune does not rise and fall at the same points within your DAW track each time you play the note. So RESET off won't do want you want either.

If the lfo phase could be locked to the song position (or maybe a better term would be locked to the DAW) and the lfo sync speed was set to 1/1 then you would know that the lfo's cycle would last 1 bar and would be retriggered on every bar. If sync tempo was set to 2/1 then the lfo's cycle would last 2 bars and would be retriggered every two bars. If you set it to 1/4 then it would last 1/4 bar and be retriggered every 1/4 bar. And so on. Regardless of when you actually trigger Dune with a key on. So you could now have an arpeggiator pattern in Dune, with your notes triggered in quick succession and you could have an lfo controlling filter cut off which you set to sync value 2/1 so that it modulates the filter cutoff in cycles over 2 bars with the phase of the lfo starting on the first bar and ending on the third bar where it then restarts again and so on.

[Christophe]

If you have RESET off then the lfo will always start at a random point in it's cycle.

no, if you want to lock the phase start you can use the matrix and set const -> 0 -> LFO1 phase
i tested the same concept with wasp and it's working fine, imho Dune RESET button is never OFF

[hesnotthemessiah]

If you have RESET off then the lfo will always start at a random point in it's cycle.

no, if you want to lock the phase start you can use the matrix and set const -> 0 -> LFO1 phase
i tested the same concept with wasp and it's working fine, imho Dune RESET button is never OFF

Yes, I see what you mean ccarrieres. You can lock the phase start using the matrix as you described. But the phase is not locked to the song position. I want to get the lfo's phase locked to the song position. Have a listen to my audio file. The first two audio examples are from Twin2. Have a listen to how the lfo increases the volume to maximum on the off beat (half way between the kicks) on both Twin2 audio examples. Audio example one is Twin2 triggered at the start of the bar. Audio example two is Twin2 triggered roughly half way between a bar. Basically, I have set the lfo in Twin2 so that, no matter when Twin2 is triggered, the lfo increases the volume to maximum on the off beat. So, in this example, the lfo is creating that typical Trance like effect where it gives the feeling that the kick is gating the audio - no matter when Twin2 is actually triggered. I cannot recreate this effect with the lfos on Dune.

[Shadx]

I understand what you mean. Can you use the automation in your host to control the Phase instead of using the MM?

[hesnotthemessiah]

I understand what you mean. Can you use the automation in your host to control the Phase instead of using the MM?

I possibly could use automation to control the phase but, in this case, I would probably have to use automation to adjust the phase before I trigger each note so it would not be a practical solution. Shadx, could you explain what you think I mean and how I could use automation to do it? Don't get me wrong Shadx, I just want to ensure that you know what I am on about and your explanation might be clearer for others to understand than anything I have posted!

[Shadx]

Well, 1st off, I haven't been here in months, so out of curiosity I wanted to see how the new forum was looking since then, so after scrolling the 1st page I just glanced at the rest because it seemed like it was going either backwards or in circles, plus I was ready to crash.

But from your original post it seemed understandable.

The problem you have is when you start playing from anywhere (not the beginning) in the track, the phase isn't in the same place as if you started it from the beginning. There's probly a mention in this thread whether the Phase is independent or not from LFO Reset, and the Phase you're talking about is the one only available in the MM.
I'll have to check that again as I was only looking to see if the problem had been solved or not.

Another workaround would be to bounce the Dune track to audio in the meantime.
Or just using a sidechain gate or compressor.

But let me test this, because it shouldn't be this complicated.
For one, there's a difference between Reset and Song Position.
The big thing to point out here is that the LFO will not always start from the same place at the beginning of the song. Reset will NOT fix this, at it's dependent on the note being pressed; it doesn't reset every time you hit play.

I'm setting up a video example.
Bah; it's taken too long; I have to go. Will post it later. Not that complicated though. Set the Lfo speed to x* or x/T and it's more apparent when you start on a bar. In Orion hitting stop twice will reset the clock, but even you just hit stop once and it still starts at 1 (because Orion will play from the nearest bar) the LFO doesn't reset with Song Position. That's different from turning on Reset which should only pertain to note presses. We don't want Reset. Start playing anywhere with restarting to 1 and the LFO will not always start from the same spot.

Ok, don't know if it's gonna be much help or not, but here. Now it's time to step off this carousel.