Shared Patterns

[bones]

The global patterns idea continues to be discussed on the beta forum and yesterday it led me to think of something slightly different and a lot less radical, in terms of how it would change things in Orion. First off, though, remember this idea to allow us to freely assign automation to any parameter for different instruments -



The idea is that I can copy/paste or share patterns with automation and have a simple method of re-assigning it to the correct parameters. This could work now with the current system, as well as with any new system that may or may not get implemented down the line.

Now think of a system where instruments keep their own patterns but allow other instruments to borrow them, like this -



A few points about how it might work:
- pattern would be editable only in the PR of the original instrument
- pattern would show up as ghost notes in other PRs, when assigned
- automation could still be reassigned from ghosted patterns, as per first image
- Make Unique button in PR (not illustrated) could copy ghosted pattern to next empty pattern, ready for editing
- pattern colour in Playlist would reflect the original instrument. e.g. If you had a Screamer in blue and a Wasp in red (playlist colours), when you shared a Wasp pattern with Screamer, that pattern would still show up red in the blue channel, or maybe blue with a red border, so you always know where it has come from at a glance.

To me this seems like a really cool way of expanding Orion without stepping on anyone's toes. It gives us everything global patterns would without having to make big changes or come up with some bolt-on extra system. It seems both simple and elegant to me, which has to be the goal of any new or expanded feature, doesn't it?

[Teksonik]

. It seems both simple and elegant to me

And completely useless........But since you're not going to stop until one of your ideas is accepted I say go ahead and add it to Orion. We'll get no peace until then.........

[Mark]

Bones, this forum here is not meant to be a construct for you to bleat about not getting your own way on the beta forum. Please leave the arguments there.

[bones]

WTF!?!? Who's bleating about anything? Its an idea I had, which I am free to discuss here or any other fucking place I feel like discussing it. There is not so much as a single word of complaint or anything that could even remotely be construed as "bleating", so I'll thank you to mind your own fucking business and stick to the topic, if you can.

And completely useless...

How so? I think what you probably mean to say is that you won't have any use for it but seeing that Orion is not developed solely to fulfill your personal needs, that hardly seems to have more than passing relevance.

[Mark]

I apologise. I misinterpreted your intentions, but please drop the overly aggressive tone.

Bleat was used semi-humourously in reference to your constant use of 'sheeple'.

[Teksonik]

but seeing that Orion is not developed solely to fulfill your personal needs,

Nor is it developed solely to fulfill your personal needs. We can already easily share Patterns between generators now so this idea brings nothing new and simply wastes development time.

But like I said I'm so sick and tired of hearing about it from you I support it's addition to Orion just to shut you up....then maybe we can move on to things that actually bring something new to Orion......

[iam7zark7]

Personally, I always welcome Bones' thoughtful ideas and suggestions and find it refreshing that he is not the one railing against new ideas in this situation. You all seem to be collectively serving up some payback, which I'm finding much more tiresome than his idea. His posts only became aggressive in defense.

I've had run-ins with Bones in the past. These few threads, however, have been ridiculous, and it's not because Bones had an idea.

-7zark7

[bones]

Nor is it developed solely to fulfill your personal needs.

Amply evidenced, I'd have thought, by the fact that it was never my idea in the first place and that most of the perceived benefits wouldn't affect me anyway.

We can already easily share Patterns between generators now

Not really. We can copy and paste them but they are duplicates and remain totally separate entities from the original. Sometimes that's exactly what you need but at other times it might be nice to change something in one place and have that change propgate to every place that pattern has been used. Its the whole basis/advantage of a pattern-based system in the first place, this is just a logical extension of the same thinking. i.e. IF you believe that pattern-based sequencing is a good thing, you cannot say that extending the paradigm is intrinsically bad. You can quibble about the detail, which is fine - that's why I like to have these discussions, no matter how much of it is ultimately wasted - but the underlying intent is unquestionably the same as that for using patterns at all.

But like I said I'm so sick and tired of hearing about it from you I support it's addition to Orion just to shut you up....

Very mature attitude, there. Little wonder rational discussion is so hard.

then maybe we can move on to things that actually bring something new to Orion......

Why do we need anything new? I think there is much better mileage to be had in improving what is already there. Finessing, refining things to make the overall experience better.

[Teksonik]

find it refreshing that he is not the one railing against new ideas in this situation.

I find it ironic.....

You all seem to be collectively serving up some payback, which I'm finding much more tiresome than his idea. His posts only became aggressive in defense.

No payback it's just a silly idea and a waste of time. So Bones can rail against people's ideas for years and as soon as he gets one (and really it's not even his idea) he suddenly deserves special treatment? He can dish it out and not take it? Awww poor baby.......I find your misplaced sympathy tiresome.....

I've had run-ins with Bones in the past. These few threads, however, have been ridiculous, and it's not because Bones had an idea.

No it's because the idea it poorly thought out, brings nothing new to Orion and simply wastes valuable development time. Bones has taken the liberty to shoot down every idea he didn't like that's come along for a decade.... I deserve to take that same liberty.........

But for the third time I say go ahead and add it to Orion or we will never hear the end of it.....add it and let's move on.......

[Teksonik]

Nor is it developed solely to fulfill your personal needs.

Amply evidenced, I'd have thought, by the fact that it was never my idea in the first place and that most of the perceived benefits wouldn't affect me anyway.

So why fight so passionately for it....just because most everyone else is against it? Fighting for the sake of fighting?

But like I said I'm so sick and tired of hearing about it from you I support it's addition to Orion just to shut you up....

Very mature attitude, there. Little wonder rational discussion is so hard.

You are hilarious. Now you know how everyone else has felt over the years when you bully them and their ideas. You've made a living calling people Idiots and Sheeple but when you get a little attitude back all of a sudden it's poor Bones everyone is picking on him.....yes you calling people Idiots and Sheeple is very mature.....it's the reason why we can't have a rational discussion....

then maybe we can move on to things that actually bring something new to Orion......

Why do we need anything new? I think there is much better mileage to be had in improving what is already there. Finessing, refining things to make the overall experience better.

How is adding a jumble of unrelated patterns and an organizational nightmare making the experience better? All this work just to move patterns around, something we can already do...

How about we work on making the experience of creating patterns better? Like where is the Chord Tool that was removed and so many people have asked for it's return? Oh that's right it's someone else's desire so not important.... How about Auto Expand Recording in the Piano Roll? Or a simple and common feature like Copy and Paste at Cursor in the Piano Roll? How about a nice chopper tool for trance gate effects? And so on and so forth.....

But now for the forth time I support the addition of your request for a pattern pool even though I don't think it's good idea just so you can have your way. Something that you have never ever done for anyone else.....and you deserve sympathy....Hilarious absolutely hilarious.........

Ok I'm done. Rich please implement Bones' request for a Pattern Pool so he can be happy.........

[V/M]

I think there is great merit in this idea, particularly the idea that you edit the global pattern in one place. but, the implementation seems to actually complicate rather than simplify things. I'm not sure how the playlist gets involved in this.

Maybe this could be worked as some extension of the functionality of MIDI-out modules (or a cousin thereof) and their relationship to generator/instruments? I feel that Global Patterns should not linked to an instrument, or the original instrument as such, but rather sit above (or outside of) the instruments.. allowing instruments and the playlist to pull from the global patterns at will.

obviously this stuff is being discussed elsewhere, so whatever is going on in that discussion might've covered some of this. maybe what i'm saying is that I think there's good concepts here, but global patterns would be more appropriate than shared patterns. I know there was a thread about this before, but i never got around to looking at it and I think it went away.

[bones]

I agree but there has been a lot of resistance to that concept, although pretty much only from Teksonik and Lance, so I thought this was a good compromise. It still provides all of the benefits without changing anything for users who don't want anything to change. The stupid thing is that Lance wants to see some other improvements that only make sense with global patterns, functionality he's seen in videos using other hosts, but he refuses to see it. For the record, Teksonik thinks global patterns will somehow destroy Orion's workflow (like I'd ever be in favour of anything that did that) and Lance thinks a single pool of patterns will be impossible to keep track of.

[bones]

So why fight so passionately for it....just because most everyone else is against it? Fighting for the sake of fighting?

Because it is a good idea that will absolutely make Orion better and because the objections to it are wrong-headed or just plain wrong.

Now you know how everyone else has felt over the years when you bully them and their ideas.

When I bully someone, it is almost always in an effort to get ideas out of them. e.g. Trying to get Lance to explain how the little ideas he's copied from some other host would work in Orion.

all of a sudden it's poor Bones everyone is picking on him...

That might give an indication of relative merit, might it not? i.e. When I call someone an idiot, most can see why.

..yes you calling people Idiots and Sheeple is very mature..

In context, it generally is. It does fascinate me, though, how the sheeple hate being called that, even in the most general sense. Very telling.

How is adding a jumble of unrelated patterns and an organizational nightmare making the experience better? All this work just to move patterns around, something we can already do...

See, you still fail to grasp the concept, even after all this discussion. First up, I don't want to add anything, just re-organise the things we have now. Secondly, we move patterns around now because we have to. What I want to do is eliminate that necessity. Yes, there will still be times when we'll need to move them around but at other times we can use them in-situ.

Like where is the Chord Tool that was removed and so many people have asked for it's return? Oh that's right it's someone else's desire so not important

That's not my call, although I never once used the Chord Tool in all the years it was in Orion and, IIRC, only one or two users have asked for it back. But you have to think it was removed for a reason, in that the easiest thing would have been to keep it there.

How about Auto Expand Recording in the Piano Roll?

That went in at Version 8, didn't it?

Or a simple and common feature like Copy and Paste at Cursor in the Piano Roll?

I've been asking for that for a decade.

How about a nice chopper tool for trance gate effects?

What's wrong with the one we already have?

But now for the forth time I support the addition of your request for a pattern pool

I don't want a pattern pool, that's Lance's idea and its stupid. The idea is simply to have access to every pattern from any instrument, to remove the arbitrary barriers that exist.

[iam7zark7]

No payback it's just a silly idea and a waste of time. So Bones can rail against people's ideas for years and as soon as he gets one (and really it's not even his idea) he suddenly deserves special treatment? He can dish it out and not take it? Awww poor baby.......I find your misplaced sympathy tiresome.....

A single post, and it's tiresome?

Bones started a new thread, with a new and different idea, and a moderator came down on him.

Now I'm being attacked?

Seems like you might be all about payback...

-7zark7

[Lance]

I agree but there has been a lot of resistance to that concept, although pretty much only from Teksonik and Lance, so I thought this was a good compromise. It still provides all of the benefits without changing anything for users who don't want anything to change. The stupid thing is that Lance wants to see some other improvements that only make sense with global patterns, functionality he's seen in videos using other hosts, but he refuses to see it. For the record, Teksonik thinks global patterns will somehow destroy Orion's workflow (like I'd ever be in favour of anything that did that) and Lance thinks a single pool of patterns will be impossible to keep track of.

Not every patterns have been created equal. Most of the stuff never will be used at another generator, just induces garbage, and reduces speed and ease to go for and successfully identify the right one.

Not everyone uses that few generators seen on your mock-up. A simple copy+paste and copy-dragging patterns are still faster and more sure to share the right pattern. What if you can't remember the correct designation of the right pattern and import a wrong one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H66mF1fXwGA

But I'm not against your idea to happen as it wouldn't bother my workflow, but that's wrong my wished improvements would only make some sense with your shared patterns! That's an outright lie!

I let the readers decide if that idea what's seen on that video would need your shared patterns. It's the opposite, IMO.

My global pool or Mark's Styles idea are better, IMO, because with them we can put intelligency into the system, selecting only those patterns which may be useful and needed shared. But I wouldn't need those ideas either, I'm not keen on them to happen. You should adapt the same approach instead of washing your dirty linen in public.

And please leave me out of it, you're just telling stupid things and lies about me. I'm not interested to go into discussion with you. That's time wasting, your acceptance of different opinions, views and needs is nearing toward zero.