Gui Question

[Teksonik]

Is there a technical reason Orion's GUI couldn't reach this level of realism?

[bones]

A little bit. For a start, Orion re-uses the same knobs over and over, whereas this seems to have a large number of individual controls. That's kind of easy on a one-off - I do it all the time in SE - but it would make a skinnable application like Orion very, very complex. When you look at this one, though, its really no more "realistic" than the Default skin, or XTRO for that matter, it is more the accretion of detail that creates an overall impression. If you tried to put that level of detail into Orion, it would take you a year to finish a skin. Believe it or not, it took me about 3 hours and half-a-dozen attempts just to put that new button on the Synth Toolbar in the latest beta. Its an incredibly time-consuming process.

[heks]

Just out of interest, what's the GUI off Tek?

[Teksonik]

A little bit. For a start, Orion re-uses the same knobs over and over, whereas this seems to have a large number of individual controls.

Where? The Mixer sends are different from the Pan Knob.......maybe some effects use the same knobs but surely that could be remedied....

but it would make a skinnable application like Orion very, very complex.

Reaper is many times more complex to skin than Orion especially if you don't include the fx and generators........

When you look at this one, though, its really no more "realistic" than the Default skin, or XTRO for that matter,

Yes it is far more realistic than Nick's default and certainly far more realistic than XTRO........Where have you seen anything in the real world that looks like XTRO? Just look at the Fader of both skins..... Having said that the Default skin is great looking and I use a modified version of XTRO exclusively.....

If you tried to put that level of detail into Orion, it would take you a year to finish a skin.

Again Reaper is far more complex to skin than Orion and even requires an understanding of a coding tool called "Walter" and yet this skin is a work in progress. Yes it's extremely time consuming but it's being done as we speak..........

So basically there is no technical reason for this level of realism to be reached in Orion, time not being a factor.........

[Teksonik]

Just out of interest, what's the GUI off Tek?

It's a work in progress currently in Beta for Reaper by a very talented gentleman called White Tie. This theme has got people pledging to buy larger monitors just to use it...(it's designed for 1080 minimum). I don't think I'll go as far as buying a new monitor just to use it but there is a cut down version that will most probably grace my Reaper when released.......

I've often wanted to see what White Tie could do for Orion and a version of this skin would be most welcome.........it doesn't appear to be any technical reason it couldn't happen other than for time and desire


By the way I should mention it's not the elements that are the point of focus here but the photo realistic style.....of course it would look and function very differently in Orion

[Kriminal]

theres no reason Orion couldnt have a photorealistic skin at all, but i doubt anyone would bother

that skin you linked to is huge, so all the spacing and large objects make it look 'better'...it a big waste of screen space IMO, the faders are well over the top

artistically is nice, practically its not much use.

[J Baker]

That's a nice gui! Now I know looks are not the main concern or focus but that gui does make it look like you're dealing with a high quality tool. I believe that's why Apple does so well. Well, along with some of the nice features they add too. Looks do sell sometimes but it also has to back it up with what's under the hood, so to speak.

[Teksonik]

that gui does make it look like you're dealing with a high quality tool.

My thoughts exactly and something I'd like to see for Orion as well...but as Krim said it's not likely anyone will bother.

[Teksonik]

theres no reason Orion couldnt have a photorealistic skin at all, but i doubt anyone would bother
that skin you linked to is huge, so all the spacing and large objects make it look 'better'...it a big waste of screen space IMO, the faders are well over the top
artistically is nice, practically its not much use.

Again don't focus on how that screenshot is setup...that's not the point...of course Orion's setup would be different....it's the Photo realistic style that's the point. As you've said there's no reason Orion couldn't sport a similar style....not the layout or function or size or......

practically its not much use.

We'll find out whenever it's released. There is supposed to be a cut down version for smaller monitors like my 22" running at 1680 x 1050......(White Tie is developing it for his dual monitors running at 1900x1200)

Oh and Reaper's Mixer can be resized on the fly and some of the elements in the screenshot can be hidden when not in use...and that is an early mockup....

[bones]

Just out of interest, what's the GUI off Tek?

The LEDS. You'll notice they have a glow around them when lit. It could just be PNG with alpha but each one is slightly different beneath that glow. Rich hasn't got around to PNG+Alpha for any of Orion's LEDs (not even for all the knobs).

Reaper is many times more complex to skin than Orion especially if you don't include the fx and generators........

You mean ONLY if you don't include effects and generators. But I do, thus Orion is many times more complex. Orion also has more toolbars to support those things. Otherwise, I'd say Reaper is probably about the same.

Yes it is far more realistic than Nick's default and certainly far more realistic than XTRO........Where have you seen anything in the real world that looks like XTRO?

Where have you seen anything that looks like this? It is mostly flat shaded, like the Default, with a gradient on the top and bottom sections to give the illusion of a curved surface, just like most of XTRO. But nothing in the real world is lit like that, there are always bits that have more or less light falling on them. Its hard to do with a Mixer though, as every strip re-uses the same bitmaps, but if you look through any of my GUI work, you will see bits and pieces just like the bit of this, just not all together.

So basically there is no technical reason for this level of realism to be reached in Orion, time not being a factor.........

Correct, except that time is most definitely a factor, as is screen real-estate. Imagine how much ore mundane this would look if everythign was pushed up together and it had an EQ section with a bunch of identical knobs. It would be very hard to maintain the illusion. Reskinning Orion also requires a lot of "coding" of co-ordinates. Skinmeister helps with that but its still a big part of the process.

By the way I should mention it's not the elements that are the point of focus here but the photo realistic style.....of course it would look and function very differently in Orion

But it doesn't look at all photo-realistic. As I said, it is mostly flat-shaded, probably out of necessity. Most of the little buttons and the big Pan knob look completely graphical. The soft shadows give it a certain ambience but it looks every bit as graphical as Nick's Default skin to me.

At the end of the day I think I could make something that looks similar to this, I just don't see why I'd want to. It is massive, which undoubtedly contributes to it's look, and hugely inefficient. And if I made anything with such tiny, low contrast labels, you guys would all complain about it, as you have done many times in the past.

[Teksonik]

You mean ONLY if you don't include effects and generators. But I do, thus Orion is many times more complex. Orion also has more toolbars to support those things. Otherwise, I'd say Reaper is probably about the same.

No, sorry Reaper is far more complex to skin. Download the fully functional demo and find out for yourself. Might be a good challenge for you as well........( for example just check out the collections of Toolbar Buttons that can be added to several of Reaper's toolbars........)

[Teksonik]

At the end of the day I think I could make something that looks similar to this,.

Then do it......or just keep talking crap.......

Ok it's pointless the carry on. White Tie is never going to do a skin like this for Orion although we did convince another Reaper skinner Nick to come on board and the result was the new Default.....I'll just look forward to enjoying this style in Reaper.............

[bones]

Like I said, why would I? It is the embodiment of form over function and I don't really like it much anyway. It has three different styles in one for no reason. The centre section looks OK but overall it is way too much. I'd do a whole mixer like the top bit, like an LCD screen, that could be cool and I could re-use elements from some of my SE synths.

[Kriminal]

theres no reason Orion couldnt have a photorealistic skin at all, but i doubt anyone would bother
that skin you linked to is huge, so all the spacing and large objects make it look 'better'...it a big waste of screen space IMO, the faders are well over the top
artistically is nice, practically its not much use.

Again don't focus on how that screenshot is setup...that's not the point...of course Orion's setup would be different....it's the Photo realistic style that's the point. As you've said there's no reason Orion couldn't sport a similar style....not the layout or function or size or......

practically its not much use.

We'll find out whenever it's released. There is supposed to be a cut down version for smaller monitors like my 22" running at 1680 x 1050......(White Tie is developing it for his dual monitors running at 1900x1200)

Oh and Reaper's Mixer can be resized on the fly and some of the elements in the screenshot can be hidden when not in use...and that is an early mockup....

the style would look very diff if it was the same size as Orions mixer on a 17" screen, thats was my point. It looks impressive sure, but it has to be practical first and foremost.

White Tie did the Schwa stuff didnt he? Olga?

[bones]

Olga looks great, way better than this.