Question concerning Wavetables

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Question concerning Wavetables

Postby GRUMP » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:23 pm

Hi all,

Some Questions concerning DUNEs WT Editor:

- The Frame Size is 2048 Samples. Which Pitch/Key is correct to make Samples and turn them into WT? I read about that before i bought DUNE and don´t find the Thread anymore...

- Which Tools and Methods would you recommend for turning Samples into WT that sound like their Source?

- Is there no way to play multiple Waves taken from a Sample after each others - and ideally in the correct Speed? ("Resampling") I know this Possibility from Halions WTE.

- I like the Factory "Legacy" WT. What does Legacy mean? Are they from older Versions of DUNE? Where do they come from?
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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby Kriminal » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:39 pm

Legacy is from D1

to get a single cycle of 2048 (@44.1) its F0 key detuned (cant remember exact amount)
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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby GRUMP » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:24 pm

Kriminal wrote:Legacy is from D1

to get a single cycle of 2048 (@44.1) its F0 key detuned (cant remember exact amount)


Thank you! With an F0 in the Search String now you´ll even find an answer from this Forum:

Quote "being f0-24 cents in tune for a sampler instrument it would only give you a transpose engine of f3 or f4 before it started to fold back on its self with band limited waveforms".
http://forum.synapse-audio.com/viewtopi ... e05a47a55d

Quote "the exact pitch for 2048 sample waveforms is F-1 and 23.4424138308938 cents."
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... 6&start=15

--

But all that´s just for 44.1 kHz Samples.

44100 – F0 – MIDI Note 17
48000 – Gb/F#0 – MIDI Note 18
88200 – F1 – MIDI Note 29
96000 – Gb/F#1 – MIDI Note 30
176400 – F2 – MIDI Note 41
192000 – Gb/F#2 – MIDI Note 42
https://blamsoft.com/tutorials/expanse- ... avetables/

Unfortunately they don´t mention the Detune here.

I begin to understand why some people adore the Halion WT Editor :/
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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby Kriminal » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:06 am

yeah well, sometimes you just have to do some work yourself....

i have no idea about the current WT editor, never used it once. I only know the size because I made a load of single cycles for D2 and used a diff tool to make the WTs
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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby Teksonik » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:43 am

Mark sells a package of over 2500 Wavetables and it includes his Wavetable maker which is a great tool. I think the package is still £10.

https://charlesdickens.neocities.org/

Mark is also the guy to talk to about the mathematics of WT creation.
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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby GRUMP » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:31 pm

Kriminal wrote:yeah well, sometimes you just have to do some work yourself....


It seems so. I remarked that already back in 1997, when my ASR10 forced me to feed him. But anyway - that´s what I´m talking about here.

Do you know the Formula to calculate the Waveform Lenth of Pitches?

I must admit - I underestimated WT Synthesis for long, digged deep into additive and hybrid Methods. But since the DUnisonEngine, its numerous Oscialltors and Voices I have adapted my Targets a little bit. My Focus in Sound Design - VOX, Airy, Choir - is really much easier to achieve with WT + DUNE´s Possibilities - and because I have lots of self crafted Sounds sampled already it´s interesting for me to "reproduce" them in DUNE - maybe - and reduce their Filesize (Full Keyboard Multisamples) on the Fly.

Unfortunately the Ways to work with Gear and Documentations have changed a lot and some of the relevant Knowledge seems not to be shared anyway.

So - I want to dig into the Bits and Bites, already read a lot - but simply don´t have much time at the Moment.

BTW I see and use Forums as a Type of Knowledge Databse where I can find Informations and leave them for others.

Kriminal wrote:i have no idea about the current WT editor, never used it once. I only know the size because I made a load of single cycles for D2 and used a diff tool to make the WTs


Which Tool did you use?

I have already cut Single Cycles in Wavelab. The Sample should have a very deep Pitch as mentioned above - and you get respectable Results. But that´s all SC and it´s quiet annoying cutting 100 of them and fiddle them together. Resynthesizing e. g. a Cello like I did with Halion would probably take some days.

If I were you I´d definately try the Editor by times. But examine some other WT before and maybe start with little Changes - and some Voices, Detune + FX anyway.

By the way - I know this popular WT Synth - and its Capabilities - but I don´t like it´s Sound and have too many VSTs anyway. That´s why I´m asking for Tools and Methods, an Exchange of Knowledge and Experiences.
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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby Kriminal » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:45 am

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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby Teksonik » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:10 pm

I totally forgot about that WT Tool. I used it with success when that thread was new in 2017 but now I tried running it on this system and I get.....

D3 111019-1.png


I've got a Win 7 system I can try it on. Did you get it running on Win 10 ? Has that WT Tool been made redundant with the new built-in WT Editor ? (I don't remember what features the stand alone WT editor had).
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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby Kriminal » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:17 pm

Win7 here
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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby GRUMP » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:50 pm

The Tool is not necessary anymore with DUNE 3.

---

I have stumbled upon this Online-Editor: http://scw.sheetsofsound.com/editor.html

You can synthesize SC-Waves, edit and export them. You can also load (SC?) WAV Files and edit them.

It´s an Alternative (less powerful, but different) to D3s Editor. Smooth and Loop Clean Functions are nice.

"Options" for SMPL-Size Selector.

---

EDIT: and here´s an other Tool: "The Wave Weld is a Max for Live device and therefore a version of Ableton Live Suite or Live Standard with the Max For Live extension is needed."

Wave Weld by Meta Function
http://metafunction.co.uk/wave-weld/

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2p0oX0 ... e=emb_logo
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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby GRUMP » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:42 pm

Intensive research on this Topic:

two Freeware Editors:
- Waveedit
- Audioterm

Audioterm is interesting, but not the right Tool for converting Samples.

Synths with advanced WT Editor I discovered:
- Serum (~180$)
- Phase Plant (~180€)
- Vaporizer2 (~40$ - many Options like Cleaning and Smoothing and Demo can save WT)
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Re: Question concerning Wavetables

Postby Teksonik » Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:22 am

This Forum is for Synapse Audio Software.

For general discussions about software from other developers you'd be better off going to:

www.kvraudio.com
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