it amazes me that some people think outdated software will run forever..?
And if you look only one time in two years (not 10 years) to other daws, you will see that more and more features will be implemented. And the users of ohter daws use this features. If you like it or not!
Do you agree? Or are you amazed again?
And please don't think that some Orion users are only fucking idiots without a wish or with a dead brain.
I understand that there are many of useless or useful ideas, but groups for Playlist I think is one of useful ideas. What could be better for organize many modules? Have You any better idea?
Next point is that there are Templates incoming, and those Templates could contains Master's ATs, some other events or modules, etc. So now some specified Templates can be added just with earlier saved groups - and everythign is clear.
@bones, many of Your advices are really good and You have an experience in that. But go thing about it again, becouse maby You have so perfect mind that You know always where every stuffs are in Your every projects, but most of producers, strictly, NOT. Most producers just creates sounds, songs without taking much attention on Organization of objects - music just by inspiration. Then is a time to Organize it and software schould help in that. When we work with Playlist then groups can help to organize the project for specified groups (Master's ATs, Module's AT's, Drums, Effects, etc.).
@bones, if You have always perfect songs and organization, that is Your success, and even if it is true, then it is Your major success. Again, if You have an experience, You schould know the best that it is very personal thing and no-one have same experience and type of thinking. If Your experience is so good for You that You starts thinking "this is only one way", then it is still best for You, not best for others. Of course, we schould always learn from experienced persons, and I respect that and You. But the worst think of You is You never agree with something other than You hold to be good. Just it. We can share our experience and put here our arguments, we can learn, but we can't say something like: "forgot, becouse I think this is stupid and You also becouse You thinked about that".
EVERY NEXT TIME everyone who says something like "it's just stupid, forgot" - please, then with telling exactly why and with explaining as most as it is possible and (as most important step) with proposing and describing better solution.
Last edited by Marcin on Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I love reading these threads where you all end up squabbling about nothing. The problem for some of you is that I reckon Rich doesn't enjoy it an therefore doesn't read these threads properly. He'll skip through, tut to himself, and see that the kids are at it again. If you want something to be implemented (and I do see some merit in organising the playlist especially with the new ATs) then it's Rich you should be convincing. Not bones, Krim or anyone else for that matter. Sell him a good pitch without a bitch and you might just get somewhere.
downi wrote:it amazes me that some people think outdated software will run forever..?
any reason why it shouldnt?
downi wrote:And if you look only one time in two years (not 10 years) to other daws, you will see that more and more features will be implemented. And the users of ohter daws use this features.
so? whats your point? Orion has had a ton of features added in the ten years ive been using it, and i prob use about 5% of them..so, outdated or not, makes no odds to me, i can still make music very easily, and have no restrictions.
downi wrote: And please don't think that some Orion users are only fucking idiots without a wish or with a dead brain.
the majority are, read this forum for details
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-intro-one-, you made a pretty little speach criticizing bones, but the interesting part in all this "wishing", is that apart from epilogue, who also presents things visually, I haven't seen any of the wishers explaining in high details how they imagined stuff to work with Orion. And when asked to explain, they think you're against them personally, and go into defensive stance, a-la "get of my case".
Now, this goes for everyone... No, I won't go off your case because you fail to explain why you need it in the first place, and how you imagined it to be implemented inside Orion. Give Richard a little help and tell him how you see it work, not just "it's very easy to implement", and knowing nothing of the ways Rich and Jouni code. It might be quite hard to implement, and none of us could know that, and everyone's programming experience in this case is completelly irrelevant simply because they have no see in the Orion's code.
No, I don't own any other DAW so that I can know how things work there. Orio and SoundForge is basically all I have. I had chance to do some work in Nuendo a while back and that's it.
No, I don't want to go slam my ass off searching for something that should have been explained (or at least linked) here in the first place.
Now, with all that said, regarding folders/groups...
Something like that? That's a part of the Flash timeline.
Collapsable structure, where you can click on the "arrow" to expand the "container" (that's your folder/group), where you can drag the ATs you wish to place inside. Well, see the image for yourselves.
Last edited by HYPNAGOGIA on Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Something like that? That's a part of the Flash timeline.
Collapsable structure, where you can click on the "arrow" to expand the "container" (that's your folder/group), where you can drag the ATs you wish to place inside. Well, see the image for yourselves.
Yeah, something like that. I prepared pictures how it could look in an Orion - not exactly how schould, but Your example, Hypna, tells much more
Collapsable structure is a good idea, it's more a question of "when/how" rather than "if". There's also some things to consider, e.g. master strip or effect automation doesn't belong to a particular instrument necessarily so instrument folders don't always help. Also, most people tend to be lazy, rarely name their patterns for instance, will they really create groups & organize them, name them?
Regarding ATs, we have to see yet how popular they will be and how frequently they are used. If it turns out that they're used only for special purpose automation by most, ie 1-2 of them per project, having them in the arrangement view is hardly an issue.
Eklectro wrote:Of course it is not the priority in ORION. But you cannot say it is useless.
Richard wrote:Collapsable structure is a good idea, it's more a question of "when/how" rather than "if". There's also some things to consider, e.g. master strip or effect automation doesn't belong to a particular instrument necessarily so instrument folders don't always help.
I don't see it as a big issue. Anyone can still make one folder for effects, one folder for Master, and place their ATs in them respectively. Or all in one "special" folder. It's really a matter of self-organization. It's not something you should worry about.
Also, most people tend to be lazy, rarely name their patterns for instance, will they really create groups & organize them, name them?
Personally, I don't label patterns simply because I know what's where, but I label everything else... mixer/master strips, generators, effects. But, I've seen the lazy. A guy labels nothing, and when I see his process, I can't but wonder how he knows what's what. But, it's his workflow, I won't bug into that. With all that said, I'll say it again... It is not something you should worry about. Everyone has a chance to create their own process of work.
Regarding ATs, we have to see yet how popular they will be and how frequently they are used. If it turns out that they're used only for special purpose automation by most, ie 1-2 of them per project, having them in the arrangement view is hardly an issue.
I don't use them yet. I tried them, but currently I don't need to automate mixer events. If only they would automate instruments' events. Having LFO on those would be neat. Both Sont Events and ATs have their pros and cons. I like the idea of being able to copy, stretch and all that with ATs, and having LFO in them rounds up their usability just nicely. On the other hand, Song Events seem a bit more straight forward process, simply because every event you record (mixer movements, instruments parameter changes, etc), is recorded in Events. Not sure how that would work with ATs.
But, I still feel sadness for not letting the LFO into the Song Event Editor. That's one heck of a tool.
Richard wrote:Regarding ATs, we have to see yet how popular they will be and how frequently they are used. If it turns out that they're used only for special purpose automation by most, ie 1-2 of them per project, having them in the arrangement view is hardly an issue.
But You will not drop ATs in the future, beside everything, right?
It's an excellent feature, but it doesn't bring world peace or fix a poor mix. What ATs are most useful for, from my point of view, is automating effect or mixer parameters with repetitive pattern(s) for special effects (impossible with the 'big' sequencers without huge hassle) as well as long sweeps/fade in's/fade out's.
For instrument parameter automation, the new beat-synced LFO Tool+ coming in V8 should be easier/faster in most cases. A repetitive ramp automation every other step or fade-in/out for any parameter is just few clicks away and you have it all in 1 pattern/1 track rather than 2 patterns/2 tracks.
ATs are one of best feature of Orion now In current project I use a lot of them. Mainly of them just receives midi from another, but for example:
4 mixer's panes - 4 ATs and only one has evend drawed. Other three just receives automation from first one and all 4 faders has beauty pattern's gains. That way is better to automate gains becouse in many situation for same pattern (and in different combinations of four module's patterns) I can use same fades etc. But this is only one of very large amount of possibilities