Shadx - out of curiousity, how many drum VST's do you currently have in OP? And/or are you thinking of trying or buying new ones? And do you use composites - say the XR-909, TomCat, FM7/8 for a kick, ReFlex for phrase loops, Audio Track for addiional FX and percussion inserts?
If OP came loaded with 3000 drum samples and just DR as a rythem module - I could undertand more outs. If it was super easy to do phrase looping on, I could understand more outs. But it's a pretty standerd drum module in a very economical production suite. Rich and Jouni know that as well. Maybe Rich is contemplating DR2 for OP9. Maybe NI or some company will come out with Ultimate Drum Factory before that? I really wouldn't waste time in hoping and submitting graphical ideas. Rich will either go way beyond that at some point, or just say 'If they haven't realised SuperDuperDrum16 VST is aready out there and free I ain't telling them.'
Last edited by Dungeon Studio on Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I didn't say it's not possible "cause the current skin doesn't show more outs". If you're gonna draw your own conclusions, keep them for yourself. I only said it might pose a problem, might being the key word, and didn't mean the skin alone, but the skin+implementation. I can't look into Rich's head and know if it's a breeze to do or not.
Going back between Bones and Rich in making all of it work (Bones with the new skin, Rich with the implementation), I figure it would be a drag, especially knowing that both are pretty much busy these days, it'll just push the release further, delaying everything that's being done currently (well, depending on the priorities, of course). Not to mention that every other skin out there will need to go over the modifications as well, starting from the current Default (which I believe Bones isn't doing) being that it's supposed to remain in O8.
Don't drag me into this with twisted words. I guess a guy can't even offer a possible solution anymore, no matter how partially it might be.
I was looking for answers on why the outs were taken out and I found ths:
Dungeon Studio wrote: But seriously, I would like to see x8 as well and think that would be quite sufficient. I mostly use x4, and creatively combine the parts together. But sometimes the cymbals need to be on their own, or the weird effect needs to stand out from the snare - so an additional four would be welcomed on the rare occasion by me at least.
That was over 3 years ago. What changed your mind?
Last edited by Shadx on Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shadx wrote:The only reason I put up the mockup was just in response to Hyp showing why having more outs might be a problem...(because the current skin doesn't show more outs? I doubt it.)
HYPNAGOGIA wrote:I didn't say it's not possible "cause the current skin doesn't show more outs". If you're gonna draw your own conclusions, keep them for yourself. I only said it might pose a problem, might being the key word, and didn't mean the skin alone, but the skin+implementation. I can't look into Rich's head and know if it's a breeze to do or not.
Don't drag me into this with twisted words. I guess a guy can't even offer a possible solution anymore, no matter how partially it might be.
I did use key word might though... my point was that there's plenty of skins with plenty of sizes so how hard can it be? There's already the implement to change outs so it's the same thing. So I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or not anyway. I'm not trying to twist words. If I did, my bad, I didn't intend to.
Shadx wrote:Why care about what someone else chooses to do with their own music and the criticism they get for it? How does that effect you?
When it comes to using up development resources, it affects everyone. Every change requires time and effort and doing something you want means something someone else wants doesn't get done.
But doesn't it seem illogical to have 18 drums and have to clump them together with only 4 outs?
Not at all. What seems illogical is having to put ever sound on it's own channel for no real benefit.
That's pretty limiting from a mixing standpoint.
If that was the only option, I would definitely agree with you but as we use a minimum of two DrumRacks per song, and anyone is free to use as many as they like, it's irrelevant.
I'm not asking for the unlimited be all end of of DAW's with acid/ableton properties, freeze and a low cut per channel.
Sorry to burst your bubble of self-interest, but no-one is going to do something just for you. It needs to be what a large number of people want, which seems to be quite different to your specific needs. That's the problem with so many of these requests, once you start down a path there will always be people wanting you to go further and further, so the most logical course is often to do nothing.
not to mention I just plain think it's the best for me, I paid for it.
You would have to be the most self-centred bastard I have ever encountered. Get over yourself, no-one cares what you want.
So Rich, Jouni, if it is too much trouble, why?
For starters, I am 99% sure Jouni is no longer active on the development side. In fact, I don't think he is even using Orion any more. So it's all down to Rich, who also seems to be away doing paid work or something at the moment, which leaves no-one to do anything, which means that something that you want and no-one else does is unlikely to get any attention. That is especially true as there is a perfectly usable workaround, so it's not a feature that stops you or anyone else doing exactly what they need to do.
Also, why is it more of a problem for others to have an extra selection of an 8xKit in the dropdown that you don't have to select than it is for me to have to load an extra of the same kit just to get an extra couple outs for a couple more sounds from the same kit?
If you could wave a magic wand and make it happen, I wouldn't care at all but if it keeps Rich from fixing up the skinning system, something that I really want that could reap huge benefits for every user, then I am completely and utterly against it.
T-Breaks wrote:Guess what? I tested it... and they hardly do the same.
I'm sure if you tested two low cut or two low shelf filters from different developers, you would also see big differences, depending on which algorithms are employed. Dave haupt, a 3rd party SynthEdit developer, makes a filter module that can be used as either, so it's likely to give similar results regardless of mode.
The 80 Hz low-shelf works great to remove some bass from a lead synth or pad, but when used on kick drums it will more or less attenuate the whole kick drum and that's not what I want.
My point exactly. No-one needs a Low Cut filter on every channel when we already have a low shelf filter. On those specific occasions when the Low Cut does the job better, use it as an insert.
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Not at all. What seems illogical is having to put ever sound on it's own channel for no real benefit.
I didn't say every sound on it's own channel.
You would have to be the most self-centred bastard I have ever encountered. Get over yourself, no-one cares what you want.
Ok I sound like a pissy brat but that was in the context of DR is the best and I got my money's worth.
For starters, I am 99% sure Jouni is no longer active on the development side. In fact, I don't think he is even using Orion any more. So it's all down to Rich, who also seems to be away doing paid work or something at the moment, which leaves no-one to do anything, which means that something that you want and no-one else does is unlikely to get any attention.
Ok then that's helpful info.
Last edited by Shadx on Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
I was looking for answers on why the outs were taken out and I found ths:
Dungeon Studio wrote: But seriously, I would like to see x8 as well and think that would be quite sufficient. I mostly use x4, and creatively combine the parts together. But sometimes the cymbals need to be on their own, or the weird effect needs to stand out from the snare - so an additional four would be welcomed on the rare occasion by me at least.
That was over 3 years ago. What changed your mind?
I found other alternatives fairly easily after. Again, I'm not really against DR getting upgraded, but Rich has got so much other crap on his plate right now - I'm sure it's the last thing on his mind. OR - he plans to REALLY retool it and compete seriously with other major plugs. So yes, DR upgrade a sweet distant dream. Alternatives will suffice for now, and I hope Rich doesn't make DRII with 32 outputs trying to take on Battery or something? That's the lay of the land and the state of the nation currently. It's NOT happening tomorrow.
T-Breaks wrote:why does everyone think he has to speak for Rich? Let the man speak for himself.
If Rich is busy trying to please our collective and future potential asses off with stuff much better than this useless debate, you think he'd really want to waste the time?
Let God answer your prayers, let Rich do his work. And let V/M be whoever he wants to be.