multi core management

[Eklectro]

Hi everybody.

As I have already observe since I have a quad core, the multicore assignement isn't optimised .
here is some example on a project buiild @ 50%. (Q9550 @3.11Ghz)



There is one single core that is over twice used than the others.
It means that this core will cause interruption first.

I suggest a manual way to move process from one core to another, in order to have the best use of all core.
Otherwise, an automatic adjustment, while the project is build could be convenient.

Of course this concerns only multicore user, and hards one !

dunno if this manual move would be eazy to programm.

ekl

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Eklectro, is the core usage noticable that much to pose an issue during the work?

You can manually move the process to specific cores by setting the affinity. However, I think that's not really what you had in mind.
Setting the affinity determines on which cores the process will be allowed to execute on, in your case, you can allow it to execute on 1 core, 2, 3 or all 4 cores.
Orion has only one process, so setting it manually doesn't change how it uses the cores, and it's not entirely up to Orion. Windows itself take its part in it by distributing the handles of the process to the cores. You can prohibit the proces to execute on core 3, but then the other cores will get more work.

If you started to feel dizzy already, just answer for yourself the question from the beginning of this post. If the answer is 'no', move on. Your CPU utilization is only 14%, be happy about it. And stop looking at the Performance tab. What you see there isn't all Orion's doing. Other processes should be taken into account there, and from the image you posted above, you have quite a load on your system (WHAT THE HELL did you spend 1.5 GB of your RAM on???)

[suneel]

I suggest a manual way to move process from one core to another, in order to have the best use of all core.

orion is multithreaded. meaning one process with many threads that will run across cores.

There is one single core that is over twice used than the others.
It means that this core will cause interruption first.

that is OS + hardware dependent. The OS's internal scheduler will decide which thread should run on which core. The method of picking which thread on which core involves very advanced math like queuing theory and random probability distributions. this is build into the windows executive part of kernel and hardware(if avaliable). If you buy newer i7 processor, then you can use enable hyperthreading to make you quad core 8 cores, to take advantage of hardware cpu thread scheduler.

so dont worry about what is being shown in the task manager, only net cpu usage and cpu usage of orion process needs to be looked at if your audio is choking.

[Muse]

I've yet to come across a task manager view of any multicore enabled app that has all 2 or 4 cpu meters exactly the same - surely there will always be some differences between how the cpu's are balanced depending on the tasks being performed - I would expect cpu balancing to be a dynamic process not some sort of "averaging".

[Christophe]

IMHO, vst plugin dll run on one single core, so it's a correct behavior

[suneel]

IMHO, vst plugin dll run on one single core, so it's a correct behavior

your opinion is wrong. a dll compiled as 'multi threaded dll or /MD switch' and if it is having more than one thread will run as multithreaded across multiple cores as desired fit by the OS and not on one single core as you claim

[Christophe]

do you know a lot of plugin compiled with 'multi threaded dll or /MD switch' ?

[Marcin]

Just some processes are not able to divide per few cores and runs on single core at some moments. This can be some vst plugin (regardless it is compiled with multi threaded) or this can be some Orion's process.
@Eklectro - please do something what takes more cpu and then check differences (Your provided usage is too less to check it).

[suneel]

do you know a lot of plugin compiled with 'multi threaded dll or /MD switch' ?

vst plugins is complied as multi threaded by default http://www.gersic.com/vstsdk/ see the caption text in the box.

To run efficiently across cores, you need both
1. host to enable the vst to run across cpus
2. vst needs to be multi-threaded

If only point 1, then the vst can be put into any core even if it is not written as multithreaded. So another vst can be put into any other core. So you cannot look at the task manager and say since core 3 is showing more load that is the correct behavior for vst. It doesnt give any useful info.

[Richard]

/MT refers to the runtime library. It has nothing to do with the DSP code in a VST plugin.

Multithreaded plugins are not necessarily a good idea, the sync effort required on the plugins side might well spoil any theoretical performance gains. In general plugins should be 'minimalist' and not attempt to do the host work. Why should every plugin have 16 Midi channels, its own arpeggiator and sequencer, its own mixer and finally multithreading? Its reinventing the wheel and going to cost ressources, as well as potentially stability. And besides, the user has to learn how the same basic stuff works in every plugin over and over again.

[suneel]

/MT refers to the runtime library. It has nothing to do with the DSP code in a VST plugin.

yep. that what i meant to say here

If only point 1, then the vst can be put into any core even if it is not written as multithreaded

meaning it is not threaded.

Multithreaded plugins are not necessarily a good idea

oh i was not debating for or against it. i was trying to say you cant look at the task manager and say "vst plugin dll run on one single core, so it's a correct behavior". because some vsts like gladiator, albino etc are threaded. that was the point

[Christophe]

i will stand my point, most of the vsti are processing audio without multithreading, but of course, use an other thread to manage the GUI

[Eklectro]

@Rich, I knew it was some difficult task, and its more an observation than a top1 wishlist.
however I don't think that I was asking for more functionality for plugs. actually I didn't know how Mcores are managed.

Concerning a serious project (I don"t have that much finished project) the average is about à 60%, but in Orion It can show 80, due to the fact that it shows the highest thred. (if I'm right).

anyway, overcloking rules with defaut fan

[Jouni]

You can technically manage the used threads from the playlist.

The generators (+their inserts) are assigned into 8 separate threads (later probably will be depended on cpu number, right now it is fixed). It goes so that first generator goes to thread 1, second to second.. third to third.. and you get to the ninth, it goes again to thread 1.

So moving the generators in the playlist should move the generators from thread to another thread. This way you can group and/or avoid grouping problem generators together.

Very simple threading solution by letting OS do most of the work. Of course there's no internal balancing beside this round robin.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

This is actually very good to know. Thanks Jouni