When i do a song, i usually have 1-8 main patterns that i'll arrange to a song. And thanks to orions workflow (that is almost like built after the way my brain is wired) i get there pretty fast compared to any other software i have tried.
The problem is at that point while the song is "complete" its pretty repetitive - and thats where im get in trouble.
To vary up the stuff to actually finish the track i have to
1. find each part i want to vary up ( a cool part )
2. go into the pattern (instant)
3. copy the pattern (instant)
4. find the first free pattern ( i kind of dislike that part )
5. paste the pattern (instant)
6. vary it up ( the coolest part )
7. go back to playlist (instant)
8. change the pattern ( thats one of my dislikes too )
Thats 8 steps to vary a part of song - repeated multiple times.
Further problems
1. If i want to record a know twiddling part that goes over multiple patterns , but not the whole song, so i cant use the song event recorder, i would have to combine multiple patterns.
2. If i want to copy a part of arrangement i have to find the "original unvaried part" from somewhere
***The proposed idea***:
- When ?CTRL-double-clicking? an A1 pattern in Song Playlist a new pattern is automatically generated ( named A1-1 A1-2 A1-3 etc ) and you can edit it without affecting the original A1 pattern.
- If you copy A1-### patterns you will always get the original in new spot ( unless you hold ?CTRL? down which copies the subpatterns )
- If you ?CTRL?-double-click A1-### pattern it creates a copy of the ### pattern if you happen to have say two A3-3 patterns and want to change one of them
- Subpattern song-recording mode:
*Either
+new sub-patterns are created from all patterns ( or nonunique subpatterns) that are in the selected loop (song position 17-32 for example )
+new sub-patterns are created on the fly when recording
*All events are recorded into patterns not song events
*All CC controls will be reset into starting position ( option ) so after your know-twiddle loop part, the rest of the song will sound the same
This would reduce the 8 steps up there into just finding-clicking-editing-going back - removing two doublekeytaps, and two annoying parts, and leaving 2 doubleclicks, and two fun parts.
Also might solve my copy-arrangement problem, and maybe will make adding crazy knob twiddling parts to a near-complete arrangement much easier.
...
So yeah - that kind of feature would eliminate one of the few gaps in workflow for me.
btw. Any suggestions how to do the things i want faster/smoother in Orion now appreciated.
PS.
Some easy way of combining Playlist selection into new pattern would be big step towards that too - and much easier to implement.
Two main limitations with that tho:
A) Pattern names would be harder to remember There wont be "A1 aka the slowbeat with 12 variations + A2 aka the slowbeat-wo-ridecymbal with 4 variations" but bunch of confusing B1-C8's
B) I like to operate with small patterns, and combining stuff removes part of that.
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SubpatternsLast edited by Wen on Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SubpatternsI think that would introduce a whole lot of other problems. For instance:
That would limit the editing of subpatterns to playlist only, as there wouldn't be any way to access them via the instruments' toolbar, which is limited to A1-H8 button assignments (64 patterns, which should be more than enough for any purpose).
Patterns are limited by their lengths. You can't make an automation that goes beyond the point where a pattern loops, to extend it, or more likely replace the song event. Automation Tracks were supposed to do that, but they got scraped for various reasons. Now that DUNE is released, work on Orion should continue, so we'll see if there will be changes about automations and what they will be.
You said you only use about 8 patterns of an instrument, so why not use banks B-H as subpatterns? You could place all your variations in that order: A1 variations = B1, C1, D1, E1... and so on. You can also combine patterns and make variations on the newly created ones. Z key does that, and it copies the notes into an empty pattern. Last edited by HYPNAGOGIA on Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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There is plenty of room in Instrument/Pianoroll for a subpattern dropdown menu. ( Unless its already full of cool stuff in O8 beta that i dont know of )
The idea was that if i have 4 patterns in my song loop - the automation would cross over to next pattern so i can record automation for 4 patterns at once --- dunno maybe this
The problem remaining was that remembering what each pattern is about is an itch, and sliding between tons of patterns is bit of a pain, but
Z key. . . . . . . MAGIC :):) this solves at least half the problem - seriously they need to put that key into the help file. ( thats EXACTLY the plan B i was looking for in bottom of my post). Also while rechecking help to find if the Z key is there i noticed the 'N' shortcut that nicely complements that. Nevertheless the Plan A, or anything that would smoothen the flow of tinkering with your complete arrangement even further would be nice, but thanks to Z+N keys it does lower the importance to me atm. Last edited by Wen on Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Subpatterns
As far as I know, the toolbar is shared between the instrument view and pianoroll, so it can't be there. Maybe on the bottom of PR, next to the horizontal scrollbar, though personally, I'm not very fond of dropdowns that much.
I imagine it would be hard to edit automation that spans across several patterns, given the preciseness of the current system. I would guess the "Z-key merge patterns" function would work pretty well in this regard, as you wouldn't have 4 patterns to think about, but only one. That, or use song events, which by the looks of things, are supposed to get some additions to make things easier, smoother and faster to work with.
Well, you can name the patterns (as you've found out, N-key does it), for sure, and then you'd know that each 1st of the bank is a variation of the first pattern in A bank. Plus you can also name the variations as well. Instead of scrolling through all the patterns in between, you can type the pattern you wish to jump to... for example, type B 1 and it jumps to B1. This is all possible without having the virtual keyboard enabled (F12 key) of course. That way you don't have tons of patterns, just up to 8.
Yes, the help file is getting revised for Orion 8 too. It needs to complement new images and features, so the shortcuts sections will get additions among other things.
It's good to bring up things in the form of these wishlists, but that's where the problem lies most of the time. What would make one person's workflow easier, might make another one's much harder, and so on. Ultimately, Rich decides what to put in Orion, it's just us here who bring the valid points for doing that. Cheers Last edited by HYPNAGOGIA on Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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