improved equalizer with monitorModerators: Christophe, Mark
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improved equalizer with monitorIt is possible to adjust the equalization from a number of places, but none of them do what I need them to do. I need to see the decibel level for individual frequency ranges. The smaller the frequency ranges, the better. There should be a visual monitor of the overall equalization for the song. This would make it possible to get exactly the right level for each frequency, instead of just guessing. With the current system, I balance it the best I can, then when I load it in Winamp, I can clearly see that it's way off. If Winamp can build that into their audio player (free), Synapse can built it into Orion (not free).
improved equalizer with monitorAre you watching your music?
How do you know that what you see as "way off" isn't supposed to be like that? And what would be the "right level for each frequency"? Your ears should tell you what's right. Even the best mastered track have level variations in frequencies, it's normal. Besides, there's tones of those and alike at KVR... http://tinyurl.com/3xey2wf SoundCloud ::: Facebook
improved equalizer with monitorEqualization is the adjustment of levels for frequencies.
You seem to be talking more about a spectrum analyzer than an equalizer. I really like Blue Cat's FreqAnalyst, which is free.
improved equalizer with monitor
Yes, sometines I do! Well, besides this topic. More visualization in Orion would be very welcome. It just makes working much easier. The brain works graphically and if you see on the curve what is the result of turning a knob, understanding it is much easier and supports sound design. There's a reason why many pro software like NI's stuff comes with great visualization. The only reason why we don't get it is that it takes more time to implement visualization than to program the entire generator/effect etc. There's no reason not to implement it from a sound design perspective at all! And besides! From my perspective, this is one of the reasons why Orion, even providing excellent sound quality, generators and effects is still seen as the underdog. I would not ask for fancy stuff but visualization is the key to enter and establish your product in the pro market. It's the same like Linux and Windows in the early days. Even that Linux was powerfull, the regular user did not want to type in commands in the dos shell. Same effect but dragging and dopping something on a graphical user interface is just more intuitive. As i said. The brain works graphically. Visualization is essential. Fab Filter Pro is a very good examples of the things I said. Last edited by DaZoid on Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
improved equalizer with monitorSometimes I do, too. Don't get me wrong, I use analyzers just to see how the sounds move across the frequency, but that doesn't mean I base my workflow so that visualization is my only guidance to the measure that I'd tiptoe about seeing decibels (?) of each range. I am more to rely on what I hear, not what I see. Analyzer just helps me to fix weak points, gaps, that sort of things (blame it on my buzzing ear).
It doesn't have to sound perfect, it just needs to be presentable in a good way. It's mastering engineer's job to polish it and bring it closer to perfection, which I'm clearly not. I'm not saying visuals are bad, I'm not gonna say visual things aren't what sell the product, we know it to be true, but the reasoning behind a request is what really astounds me. Last edited by HYPNAGOGIA on Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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improved equalizer with monitorFab Filter Pro's secret is basing really good vizualisation with great limiting algorithms. It is the combination which makes for a very potent brew. Imho vizualisation can be a great aid, if it does not make you rely less on your ears.
improved equalizer with monitorWell then why we have the gain meter in the mixer? If it's really based on your ears....
Graphic feedback are very useful indeed. Fractals are not just visuals. I mean that in everything there is a relationship that when one sense fail the other can pick it up based on this cross reference where mathematics shows up in the fabric of things. In my profession we deal with extremely complex forms in 3D and even though, when we deal with free forms, I ALWAYS manage to discover a geometrical law that runs in the forms. Now when we adjust the free hand input to a geometrical cage, and you can drive it to the smallest detail, the whole thing get to the HAHA moment. There is a relationship between sound and visual through the medium of the graphical tool employed ( and the way it is written ) so having it helps people that can relate to it. A lack it's not a justification of its lack in the first place. It's just a lack, and the reason may be good or lousy. That's not up to me to tell... yet. Last edited by musicale on Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quality over nonsense! ditto: ORION over the rest!
improved equalizer with monitorDon't know if you've noticed, but mixer meters aren't real representations of actual volume, but act more as indicators of what is happening. They are only in the form of meters to conform to the concept of the virtual studio and mixer paradigm. The only actual volume metering Orion does if for the sum of all sounds, or more specifically for the output. That's why only meters on the Master (the one actually labeled Master) and the meter on the toolbar show the real volume. Those are about the only visual feedback you get right now in Orion, unless you use a plugin. The majority of other things are what you hear, and if you need to rely on the visuals of that high detail to see decibels of frequencies to fix spikes or whatnot, instead of making it right to your ears, that would be my indication there's something terribly wrong. There is no reference how music should look like, there is no right volume of each frequency, every musical piece is unique in its visual imprint. So, how can looking at the graph be accurate?
Though, this has nothing to do with 3D, there is an analogy with sound. Take a cube for example, it's sides all equal, and its uniformity is always the same. Stack several cubes, and you get an object of certain complexity. Do the same but in different order, and you'll get a completely different object. The two aren't the same. They would be if you stacked cubes of the same size in the same order. Same is with sound. Cubes in this case would represent specific sound forms, like saw, square, sine, etc. Stack several and you get complex sounds. The size of these sound forms would be their pitch (notes). Unless you make music of the same sound forms, same notes of equal loudness, you just can't get two music that are equal when ran through an analyzer. Visuals are just aids, not the means to make music, but ears are the main tools. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to bring yet another wish down its path, and give it a light nudge to the trash bin. All of you bring quite valid points of visuals, but the reason behind the request of the OP leaves me quite speechless.
This. Music production isn't guessing. It's making each sound fit within the mix. There's no right or wrong, unless you're really deaf. Bethowen was able to do that, but he already knew the sound of his instrument and the pitch of his notes (how his notes sounded like). This became impossible in today's production. So, you have a bit spike here and there, not a big deal. Does it fit? Does it sound good in the mix, played along with other sounds? Good. Leave it like that. It's gonna get limited/compressed anyway, as long as you make it fit the rest and make it occupy its proper space within that mix. Honestly, to me, this sounds like a workflow from one of those "How to make a hit dance song" tutorials. "Adjust this and that frequency to xx decibels". Seriously? SoundCloud ::: Facebook
improved equalizer with monitor
I do not think Robert Monroe would agree with it but....you can try with RV and see if it's true. Targets for the same day at 4 locations. OK off topic! Sorry. I understand the Music/Ear factor. then remove even the dials... It's OK to have visual feedback. Try to slice blindly.... I love Orion as it is but I would welcome a graphical addition just because I am used to it. Would that help me to make better music? There is a chance, it's all depends upon your skills with tools you use at you advantage. I am a professional trainer in the industrial design field and you have no idea how colorful each student is when it comes to the use of tools. Everyday I learn that what it's ridiculous to me is a job opportunity for someone else. It's like those "Spiritual" people saying: I don't use a computer! While they send a text message with an iPhone4! This forum is full of above the average musician (as I can tell from the quality of support) but we forget the "others". Quality over nonsense! ditto: ORION over the rest!
improved equalizer with monitorInterestingly, there was a very interesting documentary on the link between race and IQ on the telly last night. The "cube" guy would have loved it.
No need to guess, unless you are deaf, of course. Use your ears - it is the sound that matters, not the values in a display.
This simply shows that you need more experience, it has bugger-all to do with Orion.
Ha! Don't make me laugh. YOu trust some stupid readout n WinAmp over your own ears!?!
There is also the fact that animated graphics can use a helluva lot of resources and if your PC doesn't have a decent GPU, it can be a problem.
Really? So sound quality doesn't matter? Strange, I would have thought it was probably important.
Maybe for children but grown-ups can more easily handle abstract concepts and generally prefer to know where stuff is going.
Simple, your ears don't know what 0dB sounds like. But normalisation works without the need to "see" anything at all, so the level meters are only a rough guide, at best. The meters in the Mixer are in fact completely useless, beyond letting you know that there is some sound in that channel. Realistically, Rich only put them in to shut people up who don't understand the process as well as they should. Dell G7 (Hexa-Core i7)|Cubase Pro 10||Analog Keys|Ultranova|MicroMonsta|Uno|Skulpt|Craft Synth 2.0|
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improved equalizer with monitor
Sorry bones, I didn't realize the whole industry is wrong.... and full of idiots. My mistake.... Quality over nonsense! ditto: ORION over the rest!
improved equalizer with monitorThen clearly you have not been involved with it for very long.
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improved equalizer with monitorDefinitely bones, but I see you did not get my point.
It's OK. I get yours. The world out there is the reflection of the world in you. Enjoy the ride. I am not here to argue, but it would be helpful if Richard could back up what you're saying so I know where I stand as a new customer because according to your report it looks like you're running the show. You see, bones, your opinion has the right to exist. But if your opinion is quoting "Rich only put them in to shut people up who don't understand the process as well as they should" then it's not longer an opinion but a reference to the actions and ideas of Richard. I hope not, and if it is so I wonder what version of Orion you are using but if you stand by your posts and words, you should use version 1.0. Good enough for you, right? Take it easy my friend. I like your style and experience... when appropriate. Regards. Quality over nonsense! ditto: ORION over the rest!
improved equalizer with monitorNo, my world is a reflection of almost 30 years with synths and more than 25 years experience on stage and in studios [not full time, naturally]. I know a lot of people with similar or greater experience than I have but I don't anyone who relies on their eyes to get the best sound. It might help you when you are just starting out but don't try and paint it as what a real professional would require, especially when you are going from Orion to WinAmp.
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