Send FX for sub busses

[MarkB]

I don't know if this would be possible but at the moment if you route a number of channels to a sub bus then you are not really able to use the send FX as this it sent to the master separate from what the bus is doing. So you cannot share reverb for instance and would need one on each sub bus. But if there was an insert FX that allowed the signal to be sent to a send channel this would be possible? Or maybe not, my head always hurts when I try to work out mixer routings.

[kmatm]

I can't comment on that specific case, but greater flexibility in signal routing is one feature I'd like to see in Orion.

The ability to route a send channel back on itself would help me do wonderous things. (I write a lot of dub and being able to feed a delay back through itself via an EQ or filter is a key production technique), but sadly lacking in Orion.

[V/M]

I don't know if this would be possible but at the moment if you route a number of channels to a sub bus then you are not really able to use the send FX as this it sent to the master separate from what the bus is doing. So you cannot share reverb for instance and would need one on each sub bus. But if there was an insert FX that allowed the signal to be sent to a send channel this would be possible?

I'm not sure I understand you correctly.

I think it's worth noting that Send channels are very similar to Bus channels, with the added ability to adjust the amount of the signal each instrument is sent to the Sends. The Sends also seem to be a run quieter than the Bus sends.

Being able to route the signal from Sends would often be useful feature; for example, if i want to send different levels for different channels of a drumrack to a reverb send, and then have that "room" sound affected by the compressor on the drum bus.

[V/M]

The ability to route a send channel back on itself would help me do wondrous things. (I write a lot of dub and being able to feed a delay back through itself via an EQ or filter is a key production technique), but sadly lacking in Orion.

IIRC, Orion has been designed purposefully to prevent feedback loops due to problems with infinity?
However, have you tried the Orion's filter delay? Not at all what you're after, but can be a nice effect.
Of course, there are vst plugins available to create dub delay effects, but I'm sure you know that. I remember being impressed by one from Audio Damage.

[MarkB]

I'm not sure I understand you correctly.

You're right, I haven't made it very clear. I'll add a diagram of my understanding of the routing. So if you send a mixer channel to a bus to be treated it is only the original signal+inserts that is sent to any sends. What I would like is a way to treat the Bus channel with any of the sends also.
Another use would be for instance if you have a group of mixer channels that you want to fade in and out at the same time. As you cannot gang faders you could route them all to a bus. But if you use sends on the channels when you fade the bus channel the sends are independent of the bus volume and will still be heard.

[bones]

SOURCE -> EQ -> INSERT -> SEND -> BUS -> MASTER It doesn't matter which bus you route to, you can still get some of the signal into the Send. After all, the Master is just a bus, exactly like the others. Try it, it works fine.

[heks]

SOURCE -> EQ -> INSERT -> SEND -> BUS -> MASTER It doesn't matter which bus you route to, you can still get some of the signal into the Send. After all, the Master is just a bus, exactly like the others. Try it, it works fine.

Funny, I never thought of that, but maybe I'm more of a visual routing person and I've not needed the scenario the OP suggested. To get around routing issues ( and probably knowledge limitations ) I've been using Metaplugin and before that xte in a mixer strip to make my own signal path, seeing where things are routed. That's the only way I've got things like Catanaya to work sensibly in Orion. Would be nice to have a suped up multiFx holder with user routing and signal out to another holder in another strip.

[MarkB]

SOURCE -> EQ -> INSERT -> SEND -> BUS -> MASTER It doesn't matter which bus you route to, you can still get some of the signal into the Send. After all, the Master is just a bus, exactly like the others. Try it, it works fine.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. Unless I'm missing something obvious how do I route a signal to a send after it has been processed in a bus?

[heks]

I think you have to unlink send.

[Lance]

SOURCE -> EQ -> INSERT -> SEND -> BUS -> MASTER It doesn't matter which bus you route to, you can still get some of the signal into the Send. After all, the Master is just a bus, exactly like the others. Try it, it works fine.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. Unless I'm missing something obvious how do I route a signal to a send after it has been processed in a bus?

After? Nohow, AFAIK.

You're doing Send and Bus 'routing' / signal sending parallel. I'd think that obvious, as you can use the Sends knobs even when you have those channels routed to Busses, and you hear the results of both.

Anyway lots of confusions here, so not really sure what you want or how you're doing your stuff with Orion.

[MarkB]

I think you have to unlink send.

If you mean the "Linked to Channel Volume" when you right click the sends I don't think this makes a difference.

This adds another question from me though. The default is to link the volume to the sends but if you do this you can't send a panned signal to a stereo reverb. If you pan the mixer channel hard right it sends the centre panned signal to the reverb and the untreated signal is panned right. If you unlink the volume it pans it before sending it which sounds correct (like other mixers do) but you can't then use the volume fader as if you fade the volume down the reverb still plays.

[MarkB]

My final thoughts on this as it seems to be confusing everyone

I think what I was after would be if the mixer busses had been designed to appear as additional mixer channels rather than channels on the master section. The mixer group channels would then be more flexible - have the sends available, would even be able to be sub grouped themselves, use a sub group as a sidechain input... But I very much doubt this will happen as it's not been built this way.

Regarding the unlinking of the volume on the send if there was an option to have the volume fader pre fx it could then be used to control the channels+sends volume in this case.

[bones]

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. Unless I'm missing something obvious how do I route a signal to a send after it has been processed in a bus?

OK, I see what you mean. I thought you were saying that if you used a bus, you couldn't get any signal into the Send. But you want to put the bus itself into a send. The simplest solution for you would be to use a MultiFX container, in the last Insert slot in the Bus. Use parallel mode, leave one effect slot empty and it becomes your dry signal. It won't allow you to use your existing send effects but you will at least be able to have send-style routing in your Aux channel.
The effects containers are very, very powerful features in Orion that allow you to do all kinds of things that you probably think Orion can't do. I never use them.

Regarding the unlinking of the volume on the send if there was an option to have the volume fader pre fx it could then be used to control the channels+sends volume in this case.

There is - right-click on the channel strip and deselect "Fader is PostFX".

[MarkB]

Sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. Unless I'm missing something obvious how do I route a signal to a send after it has been processed in a bus?

OK, I see what you mean. I thought you were saying that if you used a bus, you couldn't get any signal into the Send. But you want to put the bus itself into a send. The simplest solution for you would be to use a MultiFX container, in the last Insert slot in the Bus. Use parallel mode, leave one effect slot empty and it becomes your dry signal. It won't allow you to use your existing send effects but you will at least be able to have send-style routing in your Aux channel.
The effects containers are very, very powerful features in Orion that allow you to do all kinds of things that you probably think Orion can't do. I never use them.

That's a good idea, I'll have a play around with it.

There is - right-click on the channel strip and deselect "Fader is PostFX".

Maybe that is a new option in the beta? I can only find "EQ is post FX"
I found a workaround for placing the signal in a stereo position to the send which is to use a "Stereo Pan/Width" fx as an insert. I don't know if it is a known bug though but the Pan control works in reverse - you pan to the right and the signal goes to the left.

[bones]

It is directly under "EQ is PostFX" on mine. If you don't have it, it must be a beta feature but it has been so long since we had a new beta I've just got used to seeing it.