Loop selected sections in pattern mode

[mr9v9]

This is a request going with a post I made in the support section. I love the playlist window loop option so much that It should be pretty useful to be able to loop slices inside the pattern window as well, while in pattern mode using the highlight selection tool and reloop button. Thoughts?

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Thoughts? Just one, and it will be in a form of a question. How do you turn it on/off and how do you define where it starts/ends? Let me elaborate on why I'm asking that.

The current playlist loop consists of 3 separate controls (Loop switch, Start and Length displays with their spinner-buttons), to define the Loop on/off function, the start point and the duration of the loop - all of which you can see on the main toolbar (the Start and Length displays to the right of that Loop button on that image). If your question to that is going to be "Well, why not just use those controls?", the answer is simply "We can't".

Those controls are meant for the Playlist, which for it's purpose measures in bars. The PianoRoll measures are in steps. At any given time in the song, unless using different time signatures, 1 bar is always 16 steps, which also makes 1 bar the smallest measure in the PL. Using steps for those controls would be just plain confusing, and you would actually have to do the math to figure out where and how long the loop should be, since the 4th bar won't start at the 4th measure anymore, but instead it would be 64th step. A 138th bar would be 2208th step, which would be a little too big for displays, since they can only show 3 digits, which would also need to be changed, but I'll get back to that later. So, to avoid all that confusion with conversion, you would need another set of controls for the PR looping.
3 sets of loop controls consist of these: 1 loop button switch, 1 display image, 1 spinner button image, and a place to put them all somewhere. In addition, that's also 5 new parameters in the INI files.

Doesn't sound too bad, right? Well, just think that because of those additional 3 images and 6 lines (5 coordinates + header) in configuration files, ALL of the current skins would need to be changed to accommodate the additional controls. I'm counting in my skins folder 8 current skins, about a dozen with all the modified skins I have, plus a few more of my own that I started working on.

So, to sum it up for just a moment, what started as a simple idea now turned into the following changes:
- Code change: modifying the measurement system; modifying the display capability to 4 digits
- Configuration changes: 6 more lines to add for each skin
- File changes: creating/adding and modifying image files for spinners, display numbers and loop switch, creating additional space for them (somewhere) for 12+ skins, including mods (I don't know the exact number, just the ones I have)

But, let's say we get around to all that somehow and we don't need any of those. Well, in that case, my initial question still stands: How do you turn it on/off and how do you determine where it starts/ends?

[Teksonik]

There is room for a Pattern Loop button to the right of the Lasso Button and right clicking/dragging on the Bars Time line could set Loop Start and End points. Switching to Song Mode would automatically turn off all Pattern Loop Buttons.......

Not sure how easy it would be to implement and I'm not too sure how much I would use it but this feature would give a bit more Linear Sequencing ability to Orion especially if there was a Punch in Record option as well.....(Paste at Cursor in the Piano Roll would be a big help too).

[Teksonik]

Doesn't sound too bad, right? Well, just think that because of those additional 3 images and 6 lines (5 coordinates + header) in configuration files, ALL of the current skins would need to be changed to accommodate the additional controls. I'm counting in my skins folder 8 current skins, about a dozen with all the modified skins I have, plus a few more of my own that I started working on.

So, to sum it up for just a moment, what started as a simple idea now turned into the following changes:
- Code change: modifying the measurement system; modifying the display capability to 4 digits
- Configuration changes: 6 more lines to add for each skin
- File changes: creating/adding and modifying image files for spinners, display numbers and loop switch, creating additional space for them (somewhere) for 12+ skins, including mods (I don't know the exact number, just the ones I have)

Any new feature is going to require some new code and quite possibly some new gui elements as well so that shouldn't even be a consideration. Whether the feature requires 5 lines of code or 500 shouldn't matter as much as how useful the feature will be to the most users. I'm not saying I'd use this feature but I'm speaking of feature requests in general. They're all going to require some work.......whether or not they are worth the work is another matter......so counting lines of code or the number of skins that will be modified is kind of pointless as any progress will require some work.

How do you turn it on/off and how do you determine where it starts/ends?

As I said above a Loop on/off button to the right of the Lasso button and right click drag to select range would work ( a similar method exists in other apps). Again I'm not saying I need this feature but I can see where some would find it useful.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

Not sure how easy it would be to implement and I'm not too sure how much I would use it but this feature would give a bit more Linear Sequencing ability to Orion especially if there was a Punch in Record option as well.....(Paste at Cursor in the Piano Roll would be a big help too).

Orion already has linear sequencing ability, but I think it's more sensible to use it in Song mode where you have a greater functionality of it with automatic pattern adding and length. True, no punch-in recording yet, but being a pattern-based sequencer, it offers quite a lot in regard of linearity in its own way. And since linear recording is more likely to produce overly long patterns (talking about song-long ones), it's only reasonable that's where you'd need the loop function... aka, the Playlist, which it already has. Patterns are already looping, and if people can't keep track of a 32-step pattern at the time, maybe they should rethink about the approach.
I agree for the "paste at cursor" though. That would be a nice addition.

Any new feature is going to require some new code and quite possibly some new gui elements as well so that shouldn't even be a consideration. Whether the feature requires 5 lines of code or 500 shouldn't matter as much as how useful the feature will be to the most users. I'm not saying I'd use this feature but I'm speaking of feature requests in general. They're all going to require some work.......whether or not they are worth the work is another matter......so counting lines of code or the number of skins that will be modified is kind of pointless as any progress will require some work.

It's not pointless if it will induce some thought process in the developing of the idea. It doesn't hurt to know what kind of work would be involved and if it would be a good thing to spend (already very very limited) development time that Rich and Marcin have on their disposal on something that is quite doable right now. It is not a workaround, it's just a matter of approach. The tools and everything you need to do this is already there, you, Chris, Krim and Zark all said it in the other thread, but seems people would rather make request and then WAIT 6 months or even more for it to be implemented in the next version that comes out, especially if it's something small like this. Wouldn't it be just easier to make a slight, almost insignificant, adjustment in the way of working? Obviously I'm ignorant in people's wishes and their willingness for endless waiting. I've already said my peace, so I'll be done now. I'll let other people share their thoughts.

[V/M]

what would be the generally expected behavior for looping a range during pattern mode when the various generators/instruments have patterns of different lengths?

Say you have:

• a Drum Rack with 64 steps
• a bass synth with 32 steps
• a sampler with 48 steps
• a piano with 128 steps

If you're working on piano pattern and want to loop steps 64 - 95, the drums and bass can reasonably be determined, but the looping of the sampler's 48 steps may be difficult to work out in an expected way.

[mr9v9]

Alright just to clarify I'm not trying to make this request complicated by any means, or make it sound harder than it should be. I was just brainstorming a way to work with sections within a pattern, as absurd and redundant as that may sound it could be very useful in a pattern writing mode, using more screen shots from a sound editing program I will try and elaborate>

In simplistic terms it would look closer to this

Inside the piano roll window on the measurement bar pretend that the start bar of the pattern is on the left and its running as a 16th in length, every time you increase your length the yellow bar will always stay at the beginning, and the red will re-size accordingly.

You would then be able to drag these "sliders" to a specific section within your pattern, and the play cursor would just play that section inside the piano roll window automatically. It won't however play like that in your other instruments!


Suppose you don't need a button to turn it on and off per say maybe a panic type button I haven't thought that far yet. Stopping the song would reset the bar to the pattern length. So like I said I'm brainstorming and I am not a coder, but if Synapse is willing to give me some tools and knowledge then yes I can look into working on this and even adding skins.
Not trying to upset anyone with miles of BS, just trying to share a vision on an improvement on what I think would benefit songwriters.

[Teksonik]

It doesn't hurt to know what kind of work would be involved and if it would be a good thing to spend (already very very limited) development time that Rich and Marcin have on their disposal on something that is quite doable right now.

The point is you don't know for sure what would be involved in implementing a feature request. Like I said implementing any feature request will require work and it doesn't matter if you or I think that work is worth the time.......to the OP it is or he wouldn't have made the request.

Let people make their requests and then let Rich and Marcin decide what get's development time and what doesn't. If the guy wants to work in the Piano Roll in Pattern Mode then let him ask for looping..........

No growth can come without fresh ideas.

[Teksonik]

Not trying to upset anyone with miles of BS, just trying to share a vision on an improvement on what I think would benefit songwriters.

Don't worry about upsetting anyone. The only people's opinions that matter are Rich and Marcin since they write the code. Make your case to them and don't worry about what the user base thinks. The more thought out and detailed a feature request is the better chance it has of catching the developer's attention so keep brainstorming.

[dmassive]

mr9v9, I see what you asking for.

I use the mouse to help me to loop a pattern or a bunch of patterns.
For example, I click on step 16 then play, while playing... I click again on step 16 to loop.

I know you must be aware to click again again and again, but, helps me to tune up some notes.

[Teksonik]

So all that is needed is for a way to place a Marker at step 16 so it loops from that point to the end of the pattern without having to do it manually each time? Right Click does nothing now so Right Click to add/delete Marker point.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

So all that is needed is for a way to place a Marker at step 16 so it loops from that point to the end of the pattern without having to do it manually each time? Right Click does nothing now so Right Click to add/delete Marker point.

Unless you right click over the note. Just saying, it could be one of those accidental things people do.

[Teksonik]

I thought it was pretty obvious I meant Right Clicking on the Piano Roll Time line. Left Click there now and it moves the Cursor. Right Click there now and it does nothing. So Rick Click in the timeline area would Add/Delete Marker point.......