The Legend CCs

[tony10000]

I noticed that Legend has preset CC #s that are stored in the Windows registry and are persistent. However, you can unlearn all of them and that will wipe them. My issue is that I am using Touch OSC and typically use the Mod Wheel (CC1), Breath Controller (CC2), and Expression Pedal (CC11) as primary controllers for functions.

I have found that I cannot map Breath Controller (CC2) or Expression Pedal (CC11) controls in Legend.

Am I missing something?

[Teksonik]

I can't get The Legend or OBsession to Midi Learn Breath Controller CC#2. However it does work in DUNE 3.

Not sure if that's intentional behavior or not.

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[tony10000]

That is what I am trying to find out as well. I checked and CC2 and CC11 do not work in Obsession either.

[Richard]

Modwheel, Expression, Foot and Breath are performance controllers typically used within the modulation matrix in our plugins (Breath specifically is not a modulation source in TL, but may well be added in the future- DUNE 3 already supports Breath). We could allow to re-purpose performance controllers for remote control, however this would break their intended default behavior. Is there a particular reason why you use those CCs for remote control?

[tony10000]

Modwheel, Expression, Foot and Breath are performance controllers typically used within the modulation matrix in our plugins (Breath specifically is not a modulation source in TL, but may well be added in the future- DUNE 3 already supports Breath). We could allow to re-purpose performance controllers for remote control, however this would break their intended default behavior. Is there a particular reason why you use those CCs for remote control?

I have my Touch OSC template set up with CC1, CC2, and CC11 precisely to control VSTs such as Dune 3. CC1 and CC11 are also used by a lot of professional scoring apps such as Spitfire.

As The Legend and Obsession do not offer modulation matrixes, I am not sure how assigning CC1, CC2, and CC11 to user specified destinations would "break their intended default behavior".

[Richard]

As The Legend and Obsession do not offer modulation matrixes, I am not sure how assigning CC1, CC2, and CC11 to user specified destinations would "break their intended default behavior".

Both have a matrix on the back panel. In fact Obsession uses it for pretty much for every single factory patch

Some MIDI commands simply have a specific meaning, whether that is modwheel, pitch wheel, the pedals, aftertouch, program changes, "all notes off" messages, and so on. Allowing to use such MIDI commands for other purposes is certainly possible, but can cause users to make a mistake somewhere- our miss out on cool functions, especially in DUNE 3.

[HYPNAGOGIA]

As The Legend and Obsession do not offer modulation matrixes...

[tony10000]

As The Legend and Obsession do not offer modulation matrixes, I am not sure how assigning CC1, CC2, and CC11 to user specified destinations would "break their intended default behavior".

Both have a matrix on the back panel. In fact Obsession uses it for pretty much for every single factory patch

Some MIDI commands simply have a specific meaning, whether that is modwheel, pitch wheel, the pedals, aftertouch, program changes, "all notes off" messages, and so on. Allowing to use such MIDI commands for other purposes is certainly possible, but can cause users to make a mistake somewhere- our miss out on cool functions, especially in DUNE 3.

I misspoke about these VSTS a it having mod matrices. What I meant is they do not have user assignable MIDI tables a la u-he synths that allow external controllers to map to specific controllers.

I am still don't understand why allowing certain controllers to be used to control certain CCs to "miss out on cool functions". I use CC#2 to access those exact functions via my external controller.

[tony10000]

38C4055E-CDE7-4BAB-AAE9-B4B97D59FA7C.jpeg

[Teksonik]

Just use another CC#. "Problem" solved. Almost every parameter in The Legend can be Midi Learned.

Your screenshot from Zebra 2 is a bit unfair since it costs twice as much as The Legend.

[Richard]

I misspoke about these VSTS a it having mod matrices. What I meant is they do not have user assignable MIDI tables a la u-he synths that allow external controllers to map to specific controllers.

I am still don't understand why allowing certain controllers to be used to control certain CCs to "miss out on cool functions". I use CC#2 to access those exact functions via my external controller.

The purpose of a mod matrix is twofold- it can be used for sound design tasks, and it can be used to assign performance controllers to specific tasks. The latter can make presets incredibly powerful, you can change them along multiple dimensions with a particular controller in realtime. For instance, a controller like the modulation wheel might morph one sound into another, etc.

In particular our add-on sound packs for DUNE 3 make extensive use of performance controllers like the modulation wheel, aftertouch and also breath. By using controllers for different purposes, you miss out on the effect the sound designer intended.

[tony10000]

Just use another CC#. "Problem" solved. Almost every parameter in The Legend can be Midi Learned.

Your screenshot from Zebra 2 is a bit unfair since it costs twice as much as The Legend.

You are right. It is a bit unfair.

Here is a screenshot from ACE. It costs much LESS than the Legend.

2021-12-27_16-01-39.jpg

[tony10000]

I misspoke about these VSTS a it having mod matrices. What I meant is they do not have user assignable MIDI tables a la u-he synths that allow external controllers to map to specific controllers.

I am still don't understand why allowing certain controllers to be used to control certain CCs to "miss out on cool functions". I use CC#2 to access those exact functions via my external controller.

The purpose of a mod matrix is twofold- it can be used for sound design tasks, and it can be used to assign performance controllers to specific tasks. The latter can make presets incredibly powerful, you can change them along multiple dimensions with a particular controller in realtime. For instance, a controller like the modulation wheel might morph one sound into another, etc.

In particular our add-on sound packs for DUNE 3 make extensive use of performance controllers like the modulation wheel, aftertouch and also breath. By using controllers for different purposes, you miss out on the effect the sound designer intended.

OK, understood. Dune handles this really well and Obsession has much more extensive modulation matrix options than The Legend, so MIDI learn is not necessary for most things (although I would like to have CC2 available in both Legend and Obsession).

In the case of The Legend, I routinely use the mod wheel for filter control and the breath controller or expression for resonance control. The target functions in the Legend are Filter, Mod Amount, Env Amount, and Volume. There is no target for resonance and I have to use another CC to control it. I wish the target list could be expanded (and CC2 added).

In the meantime, my solution will be to create another control in Touch OSC and assign it to an unused CC #.

I just used CC20 since a lot of the open CCs are already used in the MIDI implementation chart and I don't have a need for a dedicated coarse tuning control. It would be nice if you could offer a MIDI table like u-he has to make it easy to change control values around rather than have them in the registry where they cannot be easily viewed and edited.

[Richard]

OK, understood. Dune handles this really well and Obsession has much more extensive modulation matrix options than The Legend, so MIDI learn is not necessary for most things (although I would like to have CC2 available in both Legend and Obsession).

In the case of The Legend, I routinely use the mod wheel for filter control and the breath controller or expression for resonance control. The target functions in the Legend are Filter, Mod Amount, Env Amount, and Volume. There is no target for resonance and I have to use another CC to control it. I wish the target list could be expanded (and CC2 added).

Sure that is no problem, especially in the current version of The Legend, which does not support Breath to begin with. I was just giving the reasoning behind not mapping a few controllers

Btw another caveat with assigning MIDI CCs concerns CC74 (Timbre). MIDI Polyphonic Expression controllers (MPE) use this to control sound parameters per note. Both Obsession and The Legend support MPE, so if you use CC74 to remote control a parameter, it must not be used in the mod matrix simultaneously.

[tony10000]

OK, understood. Dune handles this really well and Obsession has much more extensive modulation matrix options than The Legend, so MIDI learn is not necessary for most things (although I would like to have CC2 available in both Legend and Obsession).

In the case of The Legend, I routinely use the mod wheel for filter control and the breath controller or expression for resonance control. The target functions in the Legend are Filter, Mod Amount, Env Amount, and Volume. There is no target for resonance and I have to use another CC to control it. I wish the target list could be expanded (and CC2 added).

Sure that is no problem, especially in the current version of The Legend, which does not support Breath to begin with. I was just giving the reasoning behind not mapping a few controllers

Btw another caveat with assigning MIDI CCs concerns CC74 (Timbre). MIDI Polyphonic Expression controllers (MPE) use this to control sound parameters per note. Both Obsession and The Legend support MPE, so if you use CC74 to remote control a parameter, it must not be used in the mod matrix simultaneously.

Good to know...thanks for the quick response, Richard!