Dune 3 - continuous oscillator phase? (aka phase memory)

[ComputerUser]

Hi! After using Dune 3 for a couple of years now, one of the things I wish it had was oscillator phase memory. (It gets called different things in different synths.)

As far as I can tell, Dune 3 can do either these two things:

• A. Oscillator starts with a random phase position each time a voice is triggered.
• B. Oscillator starts with a specific phase position each time a voice is triggered. (Can be adjusted using a const assignment in the mod matrix.)

But Dune 3 seems to lack this mode:

• C. Oscillator resumes with the same phase it had when its voice went idle.

(I know this is not exactly like most hardware analog synths, where the oscillator has true free running mode at all times, but it's good enough. Some synths have variations on this, like Hive 2, where it's handled polyphonically instead of stored per-voice.)

The distinction between A and C might not seem that important. And, a lot of the time, it isn't. For example, with multiple voices, higher unison counts, or with larger detuning settings, this is not something you can notice.

But, imagine something like a Moroder-ish bass line. You have 2 or 3 oscillators slightly detuned from each other, and play a continuous 8th or 16th note rhythm in a synth that operates monophonically. The phasing effect and beating from the oscillators is part of the rhythm and groove, and gives continuity to the notes and helps glue the rhythm together. You can even adjust the tuning to make the phasing effect rhythmically related to the song. But, if the phase of the oscillators is random each time, you can't get that effect. Instead of the notes flowing together and the phasing being part of the groove, the notes feel disconnected from each other and haphazard, for this type of patch and playing style.

Dune 3 can't do this, right? It's something I miss when using Dune 3, for certain tasks -- usually something similar to what I described above -- and then I will usually reach for a different synth plugin for that task, instead. (Hive 2 can do it, Diva can do it, Serum can do it...)

Assuming I haven't missed a way to do this already, could this capability be considered for a future version? (I don't know how far away Dune 4 is...)

Anyway, there's my little rant. Thanks for reading.

[Richard]

Hi ComputerUser, and welcome to this forum!

You are completely correct about everything you wrote. The reason there is no phase memory in Dune 3 is because its architecture is somewhat closer to classic VA synths or samplers, than it is to a vintage synth. Specifically, Dune 3 has:

• Full stereo path starting with the oscillators.
• Ability to play back WAV files.
• Envelopes/MSEGs that start from the beginning, not from some past state.
• Polyphony can dynamically change on the fly as necessary.

All of the above is mostly good and useful but as you point out, not always what you want. This is one reason why we developed our analog emulations, The Legend, Obsession and now Proxima. They all use a fixed pool of voices (often voice 'cards' in vintage analog hardware), and maintain the full state of each voice. Not just the phase memory, but also the envelopes and filter state for example, which is important as well.

Note there is one exception in Dune 3. If you choose the monophonic "Legato" mode , you are in fact limited to one voice and one voice only, and this gives you somewhat more of an analog-style behavior.

Now regarding your question whether a memory could be added in the future, theoretically yes. But the downside is, it will not always work right, particularly if samples are involved (we want wav samples to start from the beginning when pressing a key, not continue playing from a past state).

[ComputerUser]

Hi Richard. Thanks for replying.

The reason there is no phase memory in Dune 3 is because its architecture is somewhat closer to classic VA synths or samplers, than it is to a vintage synth.

Yeah, this makes sense. I don't think of Dune 3 as a synth that would have individual voice card emulation and that sort of thing.

I usually use Dune 3 in polyphonic mode. Though, I do sometimes use it for material that's monphonic-ish. In my bass line example above, I'd probably have Dune 3 in polyphonic mode, but only ever play 1 note at a time. If the attack and release overlap between two notes, I'd rely on polyphony to blend them together, instead of having the ADSR envelopes resume from their previous levels on a monophonic voice.

(I think this is easier to manage for synths with MSEGs. Interestingly, Serum 2 recently added an option for normal ADSR envelopes to either retrigger from 0 or resume from previous state when a voice is stolen before it reaches silence. There's not an easy way to make the MSEGs smoothly transition for a stolen voice, though. The ADSR thing isn't that important to me in a synth like Dune 3.)

Now regarding your question whether a memory could be added in the future, theoretically yes. But the downside is, it will not always work right, particularly if samples are involved (we want wav samples to start from the beginning when pressing a key, not continue playing from a past state).

I agree. For samples in Dune 3, I use them for layering a transient attack, and I'd always want them to start from the beginning. And the few times I've used the FM mode in Dune 3, I've enabled phase reset, since that's what I'm used to from DX-style FM.

So, I think I'd only care about it for the VA and WT modes. Just me, personally, anyway.

I remember, back in the day when I had a Virus TI, that it actually did the phase memory thing, even in polyphonic mode. I think what it did was that if a new voice was allocated while no other notes were being held down, it would use the most recent phase(s) of the previous note. So, oscillators in the new note would take on the phases of the oscillators in the most recently released note, even if that released note was still in its audible release tail.

(You could also do manual phase init for the oscillators in the Virus, in which case none of the above applies.)

The other VA synths I used back then were a JP-8080 and an MS2000, and I don't remember how they behaved.