Dune 3 wish list

[DonnieAlan]

... As I hinted at earlier, of the 1000 presets that ship with it, there are only a handful that might actually be useful and only about three that we've actually used...

I've seen comments like this in many forums about many different VI's and to be honest, I really don't know what it means. Any sound or patch can be "usable" in the right project. I've always viewed factory patches as both examples of what a given synth/VI can do and as a jumping off point for using the VI in a track. There's a wide range of sonic options available in the factory presets for D3 and ALL of them are usable...in the right project, with a bit of tweaking. (Does anyone NOT tweak a preset to fit a track?) The factory presets really showcase what D3 can do, which is what you want if you're the developer! Its clear from the way D3 (and Dune and D2 for that matter) is designed that it is meant for sound and patch design. Its not a glorified ROMpler like Nexus 2. Its a true synth. I, for one, enjoy working with it and creating my own patches. But I also like playing with the factory presets to see what they may inspire. Its a great VI.

[Teksonik]

I don't think the factory bank is overflowing with quality at all.

Well of course "quality" is subjective but I think they show off what Dune 3 can do very well. I think that's all that can be asked of factory presets since "useful" means different things to different users.

Who has time for that? I've got an album to finish. I've probably spent 10 times longer with DUNE than Thorn but I feel 10 times more comfortable working with Thorn than I do with DUNE.

I enjoy making patches. I find starting with an INIT patch and ending up with a cool sounding patch artistically satisfying. If I'm having a block when composing I can turn to making patches for enjoyment.

I complained plenty about exactly these things, both on the beta forum

I'm not seeing evidence of that but of course I don't know what communications you had with Rich in private. Perhaps if you had presented your ideas to the group you would have found us in support.

I'm truly sorry you're so dissatisfied with Synapse products. I wish you loved them as much as I do.

I'm not against any feature request including a new Browser and posting your wishes certainly can't hurt but again there are features I'd rather see first so all we can do is ask and hope. My number one request of the .szf Osc in Zampler to be added to Dune isn't going to happen so I just accept it and enjoy D3 for what it is today. I'm of the opinion that it might be better to call Dune 3 finished and move on but I have no idea how many lines of code or hours of work it would take to add an all new patch browser for example and how much return on time invested that would bring Synapse.

Anyway good luck to everyone on your feature requests. Who knows what the future holds for Dune. As it stands right now I love the sound and function of Dune 3 and feel genuinely sorry for those who don't share my enjoyment.

[Teksonik]

Along those lines, one feature I'd like to see is the ability to set note ranges for each part, in effect splitting the keyboard however we wish to create layered performance type patches..

That's been asked for many times going all the way back to the early days of Dune 2. Don't quote me but if I remember correctly it has something to do with the architecture of the Unison Engine in Dune that won't allow Split/Layers.

I would certainly welcome the feature and was one of those who asked for it long ago but at this point it doesn't look like it will ever happen for the reason noted above.

To me there are features of Function and features of Convenience. Features of Function expand the range of sounds a synth can make and features of Convenience just make creating or browsing sounds easier.

Split/Layers would allow us to make sounds we can't now so I consider that a Function whereas a new Browser I would consider a Convenience.

But as I said earlier all we can do is ask for what we feel is important and see what the future holds........

[DonnieAlan]

Along those lines, one feature I'd like to see is the ability to set note ranges for each part, in effect splitting the keyboard however we wish to create layered performance type patches..

That's been asked for many times going all the way back to the early days of Dune 2. Don't quote me but if I remember correctly it has something to do with the architecture of the Unison Engine in Dune that won't allow Split/Layers.

I would certainly welcome the feature and was one of those who asked for it long ago but at this point it doesn't look like it will ever happen for the reason noted above.

To me there are features of Function and features of Convenience. Features of Function expand the range of sounds a synth can make and features of Convenience just make creating or browsing sounds easier.

Split/Layers would allow us to make sounds we can't now so I consider that a Function whereas a new Browser I would consider a Convenience.

But as I said earlier all we can do is ask for what we feel is important and see what the future holds........

Yes, I agree that what I suggested would expand function in sound design with D3. I was not aware that it had been requested in the past or that there may be limitations that the architecture of the unison engine itself imposes that might prohibit such a set up.

[Kriminal]

from 2014

looked into this a while ago. It requires a different architecture to work well, basically 8 separate synths, each with their own polyphony setting, own arpeggiator etc. While it's possible to implement this exactly as you propose (and it would work nicely for certain sounds) it will fail once you enable the arp or try to do poly-legato split sounds. Even if we added all this and somehow maintained backwards compatibility, it would conflict with the Multi-threading, which is most efficient with the current structure.

[DonnieAlan]

from 2014

looked into this a while ago. It requires a different architecture to work well, basically 8 separate synths, each with their own polyphony setting, own arpeggiator etc. While it's possible to implement this exactly as you propose (and it would work nicely for certain sounds) it will fail once you enable the arp or try to do poly-legato split sounds. Even if we added all this and somehow maintained backwards compatibility, it would conflict with the Multi-threading, which is most efficient with the current structure.

Now you know why I am NOT a software engineer! Thanks for the further explanation!

[Teksonik]

from 2014

it will fail once you enable the arp or try to do poly-legato split sounds....it would conflict with the Multi-threading, which is most efficient with the current structure.

But that basically describes luSH101's architecture. 8 separate layers each with it's own Arp,each layer can be Mono or Poly, key range assignable per layer, it is Multi-threaded and so on.

But of course luSH101 doesn't have Dune 3's sound......

[Kriminal]

must have been coded as 8 separate synths, not 1 synth with 8 layers

[Teksonik]

must have been coded as 8 separate synths, not 1 synth with 8 layers

I don't know how it was coded but it shows that all those things can be done given the right architecture.

Shame as I'm sure we can all think of ways to use Splits. But as I said earlier it doesn't look like it will ever happen in Dune so we just accept it and move on.

[DonnieAlan]

must have been coded as 8 separate synths, not 1 synth with 8 layers

Well, for one thing, if this is how it has to be done, then it could end up being a major resource hog. Omnisphere allows for all that kind of splitting and layering up to 8 parts, each with its own arp (or not) etc etc. But the more complex, the worse it is on CPU. There are tradeoffs!

[bones]

Any sound or patch can be "usable" in the right project.

Really? What project would you use the first preset in DUNE 3 for? It's not a synth preset, it's a demo tune in its own right. Honestly, I can't see any reason a synth needs to be able to do stuff like that.

I've always viewed factory patches as both examples of what a given synth/VI can do and as a jumping off point for using the VI in a track. There's a wide range of sonic options available in the factory presets for D3 and ALL of them are usable...in the right project, with a bit of tweaking.

All well and good but obviously I can only speak for my own needs and many other synths provide for them better than DUNE does. I reckon there are probably 50 usable presets in Equator, for example, and it only ships with about 300, not 1000. There are a few dozen in Thorn and plenty in TRK-01, too. Yes, it probably means it's targeted at a different audience but when you have 1000 presets, surely you can cater to everyone a bit better than that?

Its clear from the way D3 (and Dune and D2 for that matter) is designed that it is meant for sound and patch design.

It's certainly not meant for songwriting or production. Even though it is easily the best sounding synth I have access to, it is usually the last one I reach for which, when you think about it, is really disappointing.

Well of course "quality" is subjective but I think they show off what Dune 3 can do very well. I think that's all that can be asked of factory presets since "useful" means different things to different users.

The first preset does that well enough, which would make the other 999 redundant if that's their purpose.

I enjoy making patches. I find starting with an INIT patch and ending up with a cool sounding patch artistically satisfying. If I'm having a block when composing I can turn to making patches for enjoyment.

I find it tedious and annoying, like choosing a font for a graphic. If I'm having a dose of writer's block, I'll go for a drive or watch a movie, something completely unrelated to music.

I complained plenty about exactly these things, both on the beta forum

I'm not seeing evidence of that but of course I don't know what communications you had with Rich in private. Perhaps if you had presented your ideas to the group you would have found us in support.

I'm talking all the way back to the original DUNE, not just the recent beta, where everything was mostly set in stone by the time we had access to it.

I'm truly sorry you're so dissatisfied with Synapse products. I wish you loved them as much as I do.

Synapse has nothing to do with it, I take every product on its merits. I'm not going to love something just because it's made by a friend of mine. They can't all be hits, I just have to hang in there and wait for him to make something better than Wasp 5, although I have to wonder if that's even possible.

Shame as I'm sure we can all think of ways to use Splits. But as I said earlier it doesn't look like it will ever happen in Dune so we just accept it and move on.

Why can't you do it in your host with multiple instances? You could have one instance playing the low octaves, a second instance playing above it and a third instance that plays the full range. Set them all to the same MIDI channel and off you go. All three instances could even play the same patch with different layers soloed. Easy!

[Teksonik]

Really? What project would you use the first preset in DUNE 3 for? It's not a synth preset, it's a demo tune in its own right.

I've used it in a project by simply disabling the built in Arp/Seqs and programming my own notes in a Piano Roll. The base sound is pretty cool and although I could make something similar why not take advantage of a cool sound that already exists ?

But that patch is a perfect example of demonstrating what sounds D3 can make. It allows someone who is demoing the plugin to instantly hear what D3 is capable of doing.....in the right hands.

The first preset does that well enough, which would make the other 999 redundant if that's their purpose.

Well of course not all 1000 patches are Sequence based and each Seq patch has a different base sound. If they bother you that much delete them. They are designed to sell the plugin not to satisfy only you. They can easily be used if you have a little imagination.

Synapse has nothing to do with it,

Of course they do since it's their synths we are discussing. If you're so dissatisfied with The Legend and Dune 3 then move on. Bitching about them here will accomplish nothing except insult the work of your "friends". (with friends like you who needs enemies?)

I don't love Dune 3 because it's made by Synapse I love it because it sounds awesome and is dead easy to program.

I just have to hang in there and wait for him to make something better than Wasp 5, although I have to wonder if that's even possible.

It's not only possible but it's already been done. It's called Dune 3 and everybody who has purchased it so far obviously agrees. Stop living in the past. Unless you want your music to sound exactly the way it did 18 years ago. I prefer my sound to evolve and grow over time. You're starting to sound like Layzer.

I find it tedious and annoying,

I find you tedious and annoying but here we are.

I love making patches. If you don't who gives a feck ?

Why can't you do it in your host with multiple instances?

You're complaining about Dune 3 being too hard to program but you want me to use multiple instances at the same time to accomplish a task easily done with a single patch in other plugins I own. If you think using multiple instances is easier than using a single Preset that can be called up and used in an instant then I don't know what else to say. Your contradictions are baffling.

Anyway Dune 3 is what it is. There are features that are obviously never going to be added but I'm fine with that. It's already an awesome synth so I just enjoy it for what it is. If you don't enjoy it as much as I do then I am truly sorry.....

[bones]

Of course they do since it's their synths we are discussing.

Don't quote me out of context to make your own case look better, it just makes you look stupid.

If you're so dissatisfied with The Legend and Dune 3 then move on. Bitching about them here will accomplish nothing except insult the work of your "friends". (with friends like you who needs enemies?)

I only ever mention the Legend when it relates to something else, I long ago gave up on it, but whilst there are things about DUNE I dislike, the sound is amazing and I would love nothing more than to actually want to use it in every song. Consequently, I am going to bitch like hell about it until something gets done to give me that sound in a package I might actually want to use, instead of feeling like I have to, whether I want to or not.

It was OK when we were still on 32 bit Orion, because I could use the Antidote Alpha I had, which has all the good bits in a much easier to work with layout, but since we moved to 64 bit I've had no choice but to deal with DUNE if I want that sound.

I don't love Dune 3 because it's made by Synapse I love it because it sounds awesome and is dead easy to program.

That is provably not the case. e.g. You cannot tell just by looking which voices are in use, you have to solo them one by one to determine what is happening where. That, right there, is incredibly poor workflow, even before you get into the lack of D'n'D modulation routing and all the rest of it that people take for granted these days. You might be very used to using it but no objective observer, with access to all the other $150-$200 VSTi out there, would agree with your assessment of DUNE's ease of use.

Here's a visual example - just look at how tiny and unmusical DUNE's sequencer is compared to Factory's. Which one of those do you think is going to be more usable for 99.99% of people? More importantly, which one of those is more inviting for anyone to even want to work out how to use? The DUNE sequencer is a punish although, to be fair, they do slightly different things.


BTW, that is both GUIs at their default sizes and DUNE 3's is actually bigger overall.

I just have to hang in there and wait for him to make something better than Wasp 5, although I have to wonder if that's even possible.

It's not only possible but it's already been done. It's called Dune 3 and everybody who has purchased it so far obviously agrees. Stop living in the past. Unless you want your music to sound exactly the way it did 18 years ago. I prefer my sound to evolve and grow over time.

So do I but only if it actually improves and, as we've demonstrated before, none of DUNE's filter types can hold a candle to Wasp's LP FAT. I gave you the challenge and you shied away from it.

I love making patches. If you don't who gives a feck ?

You mean in the same way that no-one gives a flying feck about that?

You're complaining about Dune 3 being too hard to program but you want me to use multiple instances at the same time to accomplish a task easily done with a single patch in other plugins I own.

Wait on, are you suggesting that other plugins allow you to accomplish things more easily than DUNE does? How is that even possible? I think we can safely leave this discussion here as you have now proven my point for me.

[Teksonik]

Don't quote me out of context to make your own case look better, it just makes you look stupid.

I don't need help making my case look better. You've made yourself look stupid for years and you're doing it again with another one of your silly posts.

Look I'm not going to bother going quote for quote. Like I said Dune 3 is dead easy to program if you know what you're doing. If you'd spend half as much time using it instead of bitching about it you too might find it easy to program. Or it might still be way over your head. People are releasing patch banks for it with some frequency so it's obviously not impossible to program and shouldn't be even for a simpleton like you.

Did I say D3 is the easiest synth I own to program or the most feature rich ? No I did not. Did I say I'm against any feature request ? No I did not. Did I say D3 is perfect ? No I did not.

You want everything done just to your specifications but couldn't be arsed to participate one bit in the development of Dune 3. Now you're going to "bitch like hell" until you get what you want ? What a pathetic little bitch you are.

For example you ask for DnD automation to make things easier but if I suggest Split Layers to make things better then you suggest some silly workaround. It's all about you it always has been and I suppose it always will be. Your way is the only way and anyone who disagrees is an "idiot". Go fuck yourself.

As for the rest of your fluff and blubber....I'm not the guy who writes the code take your complaints to the guy who does. Notice how much interest he has shown in your bleating ?

But I sincerely hope you get everything you want little boy. Then maybe you'll stop bitching and throwing your toys out of the pram. But I have a feeling you never will.

Ok Mods I'm out of here. I've had enough of Bonehead. Do me one last favor and leave my post as written. I'll see you on the other forum where the men hang out......

[Marsi 27]

I find the handling and sound of Dune almost perfect.
I think that 2 things are in need of improvement: the Step Sequencer and the Comb Filter.

On the one hand, it would be nice if there were at least one more modulation row in the step sequencer in addition to the velocity values.
In addition, allocation possibilities of the second arpegiator / step sequencer are still missing in the modulation matrix.
Also, a larger editing window in which one can edit all steps and modulation values ​​graphically would be desirable.

On the other hand, a more strongly sound-modifiying comb filter would be desirable.

It would be great if some of these things were already implemented in Dune 3, not just in Dune 4 in 4 years or so.

Nevertheless, Dune is a really great VST synthesizer.
My personal favorite.

Thanks Richard