Suggestions for improvements - minor things, big impact!

[kaydon]

Hi Synapse Audio Team,

I would like to give some feedback and suggestions to improve your Dune 3 VST.
I am referring to the current demo version that is available on your website (Version 3.20) and the available manual.

First of all thank you for this great synth. What I really like, as a summary, is:

Clean user interface, most is sorted well and well readable. The option to change the size of the GUI is a very handy tool. I use the large skin on a 24” LCD, as I like to have everything bigger and well readable.
The sound is very nice, as well as the choice of the factory patches that reveal lots of the synth.
(Mostly) clear structured layout that is oriented based on classical synths.
The differential unison engine is a fantastic concept, enables the programmer to do lots of work with only one instance of the VST, as the individual voices can be modified extensively.
The display in the top center is well designed so that important functions can be found quickly.
The set of effects is very good, as I don’t like to have a synth without any standard FX and do everything in the daw after getting the “raw” signal from the synth, only -> Far better workflow. I am also happy with the quality of the FX, however sometimes I would go and use a certain VST FX, but this method is rather usual.

Now I would also like to give some suggestions to make Dune even better:
Put two buttons for undo/redo above or beneath the “display” to use it quickly. Now, when I like to undo a change, depending in which tab of the menu of the display I am, I need several clicks to reach the undo/redo function -> massive workflow interruption.
I would prefer to change the order of the Filter Envelope section with the Amp Envelop section, as Amp Env has higher priority (Filter Env is usually dependent on the Amp Env settings). This would be more intuitive. In many cases I encountered that I accidently changed the Filter Env instead of the Amp Env, because I confused them subconsciously. Maybe other users would also prefer this change in ergonomics/intuition.
I rather would prefer vertical sliders instead of knobs for the envelopes (this is personal preference), but I do also think that the envelopes are better recognizable at first sight, when you look at the pattern of the positions of faders for envelopes.
I would also suggest to place three little “fields” above the “Master” section that display numerical values for the BPM, CPU-usage and level peak in dB. With that little addition the workflow would be increased, as you would not have to put away your eyes from the synth to look these things up in your daw all the time. On the other hand it enables the user very quickly to take measures to optimize the performance, when using lots of unison voices, etc., by seeing the CPU-usage immediately and the impact of measures taken (reduction of voices, turning off OSCs, etc.), as well as setting the volumes properly regarding the dB reference values (also better for using the brickwall limiter to know where you are).
Then there is confusion with the values of the faders and knobs. To have everything in percentage is annoying. Percentage means “relative value”, but to what reference? And for the different groups of faders and knobs it does not mean the same always. Examples:
For the OSC MIXER percentage is ok to have the levels with respect to each other (OSC1, OSC2, etc.), although with the same percentage value, volume will almost always be different among the sources OSC1, OSC2, etc. depending on actual settings, i.e. density, amount, etc., that’s clear.
For the envelopes, percentage is not so nice. I would rather prefer time in ms, if possible, regarding audio technical characteristics. Also depending on, if the envelopes follow a “time approach” or a “slope approach” in your synth. But maybe it would be interesting to program a function that would then calculate the resulting times depending on the actual amplitudes and fader/knob positions and display the times in ms.
One very annoying thing I absolutely do not like regarding the position of Faders/knobs is,
that the values do not correspond to the values in the modulation matrix. So, especially for modulation.Cf. page 89 in manual “[…) will have a cutoff setting corresponding to 100% (50% + 50%).” That is absolutely not intuitive in my opinion. And I think your explanation is also wrong. The value in the mod matrix will not “[…] adjust the parameters relative to the knob settings […]” , that would usually mean for the giving example “50% of 50% = 25%”. What you are trying to explain is, that the relative values are added up, right?

For filters FILTER1/FILTER2 the cutoff frequency could be displayed instead of percentage.
A further suggestion for the DELAY 1/DELAY 2 effect, would be to have an option to link “L-RATE” and “R-RATE”.
A further suggestion for the ARPs, would be great to get the “---” of the “NOTE” in a step by just clicking right mouse button.


This is what I would like to say for the moment. The above-mentioned aspects are improvements of the current functions and not major wishes. Some of them will be quick to program, but would still be a major improvement, especially regarding workflow. I hope you appreciate to get feedback. If yes, maybe I would post further experiences and findings in later comments.

For the users who read this posting, if you agree on some recommendations of my post or have alternative solutions for the aspects I presented, please feel free to support by writing a comment!
Best regards
Kaydon

[Kriminal]

it's totally skinable, you can easily do the gui stuff yourself

infact, you can swap the amp/env around just by changing the cfg file

no interest in your other requests

[kaydon]

it's totally skinable, you can easily do the gui stuff yourself

infact, you can swap the amp/env around just by changing the cfg file

Thanks for the advice, I tried to change the position of AMP Env and Filter Env and it worked! But I also had to do some graphical stuff, only cfg file changes was not possible. The labels, etc. were fixed in the background image!

Best regards

[Teksonik]

I would also suggest to place three little “fields” above the “Master” section that display numerical values for the BPM, CPU-usage and level peak in dB. With that little addition the workflow would be increased,

The CPU usage would increase as well having to calculate and display CPU demand and Levels. Please no.

To be honest as someone who has done hundred of patches for Dune 3 I hope few if any of your suggestions are implemented.

But good luck with your requests. The list is quite long already however you never know what the future holds......

[kaydon]

I would also suggest to place three little “fields” above the “Master” section that display numerical values for the BPM, CPU-usage and level peak in dB. With that little addition the workflow would be increased,

The CPU usage would increase as well having to calculate and display CPU demand and Levels. Please no.

To be honest as someone who has done hundred of patches for Dune 3 I hope few if any of your suggestions are implemented.

But good luck with your requests. The list is quite long already however you never know what the future holds......

But come on, at least the thing with the hidden undo/redo is senseless. If that would not be changed, then the function could just be removed. Never saw a software that had these functions that hidden

I don't want to degrade Dune 3. It's an swesome synth, just wanted to brainstorm about possbile ideas.

Enjoy the weekend you all!

[Teksonik]

I've never once used Undo/Redo. If I make a change that I don't like I just change it back.

If you use Reaper as your DAW it has U/R buttons that you can add to its toolbar and they work with Dune 3. If you position Dune 3's gui next to the toolbar the U/R buttons are right at hand and you could assign qwerty shortcuts to them. Your DAW of choice may have a similar option. A workaround yes but it's something you could use now.

D3 032820-1.png

But add U/R buttons to the Dune 3 feature request list. Some people want a new Preset Browser, others want Micro-tuning and so on and on.

All you can do is make your request and hope it shows up in a future update.

[bones]

DUNE has undo/redo? Where? I can't see it anywhere on the GUI and I sure as hell never knew it was there.

Beyond that, it's a musical instrument, not a scientific instrument. Real values are unimportant, you adjust controls according to your ears, not according to some formula. And "relative" is the correct term to use in the mod matrix. The range is -50 to +50, there is no "percent" involved. Again, the numbers are largely meaningless, you adjust the values until you get the right sound.

The reason the Filter Env comes before the Amp Env is that the signal goes through the filter before it gets to the amp and following the signal path is far more intuitive than any other way of laying out controls, given a basic underlying knowledge of how synths work. I'd also suggest that the filter envelope is infinitely more important than the amp envelope, which is often just an afterthought when I am building sounds, if I use it at all. (That's why some synths have a gate option, to use instead of the envelope.)

[kaydon]

I've never once used Undo/Redo. If I make a change that I don't like I just change it back.

If you use Reaper as your DAW it has U/R buttons that you can add to its toolbar and they work with Dune 3. If you position Dune 3's gui next to the toolbar the U/R buttons are right at hand and you could assign qwerty shortcuts to them. Your DAW of choice may have a similar option. A workaround yes but it's something you could use now.

D3 032820-1.png

.

Good idea...Workarounds are usual...especially in complex systems, knowing that we use things that coming from many different sources and not one creator! Thanks

[kaydon]

Beyond that, it's a musical instrument, not a scientific instrument. Real values are unimportant, you adjust controls according to your ears, not according to some formula. And "relative" is the correct term to use in the mod matrix. The range is -50 to +50, there is no "percent" involved. Again, the numbers are largely meaningless, you adjust the values until you get the right sound.

You are right and you are not. I fully agree that the acustic part is the most dominant and the ear should be the main tool. But, a synthesizer is a highly technical instrument based on scientific models and -knowledge. There is lots going on in mathematics and physics.
Thank scientists that for different quantities different units can be used. And for some cases its so inherent that they even call these quantities as Delay "TIME" and not Delay "PERCENTAGE", etc. moreover the unit of time is seconds (resp. ms). Be sure that synthesizer programmers do absolutely think of these things! I.e. a dB meter with the unit percentage would be more than just unusual.
To keep as much as possible in one general manner prevents work. So in my opinion in some cases it could be better to use proper units instead of abstract ones. But I am not strict, I just pointed it out as a possbile idea!

The reason the Filter Env comes before the Amp Env is that the signal goes through the filter before it gets to the amp and following the signal path is far more intuitive than any other way of laying out controls, given a basic underlying knowledge of how synths work. I'd also suggest that the filter envelope is infinitely more important than the amp envelope, which is often just an afterthought when I am building sounds, if I use it at all. (That's why some synths have a gate option, to use instead of the envelope.)

Makes sense! Nevertheless it's not important anymore, as of the custumize functions of the GUI (excellent comment),

[bones]

... And for some cases its so inherent that they even call these quantities as Delay "TIME" and not Delay "PERCENTAGE"... etc. moreover the unit of time is seconds (resp. ms).

Not always, sometimes it's just a knob with no values at all. Anyway, in the context of a musical instrument, having delay times in seconds can be really annoying, as you have to calculate BPM - much easier to use your ears to get it in time.

Be sure that synthesizer programmers do absolutely think of these things! I.e. a dB meter with the unit percentage would be more than just unusual.

On a mixer but a level meter on a synth is a complete and utter waste of time so it makes no difference what the markings are.

[Richard]

DUNE has undo/redo? Where?

It is located in the Patch menu. Undo/Redo is pretty cool since it works across patch changes. So if you create a new patch then accidentally switch to a factory patch via your MIDI keyboard, your work is not lost even if you never saved it.

[Kriminal]

So if you create a new patch then accidentally switch to a factory patch via your MIDI keyboard, your work is not lost even if you never saved it.

oh god, I've done that so many times, gone to press save and pressed next and lost my work

never knew dune had undo....

[kaydon]

That is the proof that the location of the undo/redo fucntion is very silly, as many users don't even know that there is such a function

[Richard]

Sure its location could be better, iirc Undo/Redo was added late in the development process.

It is all described in the manual though

[Teksonik]

That is the proof that the location of the undo/redo fucntion is very silly, as many users don't even know that there is such a function

I knew it was there I just never needed it....but then I don't make that many mistakes that I need to undo what I've done all the time.